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#1
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100 hour
I was over at the friendly airport (Saturday), changing my oil, and cleaning and gapping my sparkplugs. I talked to the mech there, and asked him about the 100 hour inspection. He comes by and does the safety wires after the oil change, and showed my how to do the plugs.
I wanted to get the 100 hour scheduled. His response was that I don't need a 100 hour inspection, that I should do all the 100 hour services lubes, but a 100 hour inspection is really an annual, and since I am not using it for commercial use, only part 91 use, I don't have to have him do that. Is this correct? I'm busy getting lubes, and I'm going to need new plugs in the rear, but he says that I can do most of this stuff myself, and for the things where I have to open something up, he can supervise me. My wife listened to GMAS, and wants to make sure we do everything correctly to ensure our safety. Thanks 
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#2
05-19-02, 06:40 PM
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Larry... not too sure what your trying to do here...
The 100 hr inspection is for any aircraft that has flown that long... and the inspection data is listed in the front section of the service manual... where all the little dots and times for things to be done are... now their are things that should be done before the 100 hrs... i.e. like every 25 hrs, 50 hrs... etc... you need to take a look at these things ... and make sure that they are being accomplished... Now your mechanic is right... unless you have 100 hrs on the aircraft since the last inspection... then you don't need to do it... until a year has pass since the last annual inspection... again if you have flown more than 100 hrs... you need the 100 hr inspection that he can do... along with your help... but, if for instance you only flew 75 hrs... then you need only look at the last annual date... and count 12 months from it... remember your annual goes south on the last day of the month so you can actually get 13 months in... if you time it right... i.e annual was signed off on the 1st of January... your next annual is due on the 31st of next January....or 12 months plus 30 days... if however you finished and your annual was signed off on the 20th of January... it expires one year later on the 31st... Now as to lubes and other things... thats a pilot thingiee... and once he shows you how... you can peform routine maintance... so long as you don't have to take anything appart that requires a torque value or safety wire... (with the oil filter and drain plug being the exception) So you need to keep an eye on the time from last annual... in months and also the time in hours ... because you are not supposed to go over 100 hrs between inspections... the 100 hr is routinely done along with the annual with the mechanic preparing the plane and the IA doing the inspection after he is done... most of the time it is done concurently... with the IA supplying the mechanic (A&P) with all the things that should be looked at that he has gotten problems on... However, the 100 hr inspection can be done just by a A&P and returned to service... it is only the annual that requires the IA to sign off... Now this is for the part 91 operation... you are not flying for commercial operation under part 121,125,135or 141... if you are a private pilot... and thus the only rules that apply are part 91, 61 and 43 for the mechanical... It gets confusing about commercial ratings vs the parts that you can fly under... along with the ATP rating... but, yes you can be a air carrier and use your skymaster... parts, goods and services are all listed under the different parts... and if you are..then you need to discuss the aspects of annual vs contenual progressive inspection... which you can read about in the service manual... with your local FAA office... but, most of us who use the plane for pleasure... under the GA rules... are operating on the part 91 stuff... G.M>
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#4
05-19-02, 07:11 PM
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Well, I have 100 hours on the airframe, since the last annual, and I thought he should jack it up in the air and stuff, since I am now at 102 hours.
He suggested that i do all the lube things, but jacking it up, empting the interior, and taking all sorts of things appart would not be necessary. Yes, well, you see, it's like this, where's Keven when i need him. So the 100 hour is like an annual, but an A&P can sign it off?
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#5
05-19-02, 09:20 PM
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A "100 hour inspection" is a term that has special meaning for aircraft that are operated for hire, i.e. charter and rental. It is a required inspection, and is essentially the same as an annual. (GMAS says it does not require an IA, so that is a difference, but I mean it is the same in terms of the extent of the inspection.)
However, if you only fly a 150 hours per year or so, the non-commercial operators that I know do not do this "full annual" type inspection, because only 50 hours later, you are going to have to do the whole thing over again (an annual), whether you want to or not. In my opinion (and I am sure there are others), you *do* need to ignition maintenance every 100 hours, and some other things that your mechanic sounds like he is advocating. But a full annual is somewhat invasive, and in my opinion you have a non-trivial chance of breaking things that aren't broken on the airplane by taking it apart to that extent more frequently than needed. So, this is a situation where you need to look at what items are in a full 100 hour inspection, and what items your mechanic is recommending, and decide yourself whether you want him to go "full boat", or just do what he recommends. Again in my opinion, if you operate 200 hours a year or less, I would only do the annual once per year, and would not do the commercial operator type 100 hour. I *would* do a subset of the annual every 100 hours, including items like lubrication and ignition maintenance. We all want to be safe. But consider that the most dangerous flight you make every year (from a maintenance standpoint) is the first flight after the annual. The risk of delaying a gear swing 50-75 hours (for example) needs to be weighed against the risk and expensive of "opening 'er up" for inspection. Kevin
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#6
05-19-02, 10:36 PM
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Well lets just see what the old manufacture says... after all he is the higher source....
Ahhhh... I see in the service manual that it says ... Inspection requirments.... All civil aircraft of U>S> registry must undergo a COMPLETE INSPECTION (ANNUAL) EACH twelve calendar monts... IN ADDITION.... to the required ANNUAL inspection, aircraft operated for commercial hire must also have a complet AIRCRAFT INSPECTION every 100 hrs of operation.... ah ha... then we don't have to.... yeaaaaaa..... huh... But... just when you though you had the answer.... Under inspection Charts.... it says ... as shown in the charts , their are items to be checked each 50 hours, each 100 hours, each 200 hours, and special inspection items which require servicing or inspection at intervals other than 50, 100, or 200 hrs... So that brings us to the question about the gear being swung at each 100 hrs... in my manual that I have it says that you have to do a retract test every 200 hrs... or at annual.... (meaning yearly) Its all their in Chapter 2 under Ground handling, servicing, lubercation and inspection.... And thats the part about the manufacture says... you shall do.. thing we covered in the siminar... Go to the book... (service manual) for it is the bible of the aircraft... know yee well... smile... But, yes your mechanic can sign off all the work done on the 100hr maintance... only time you need the IA is at the year mark.... and yes your mechanic can have you assist him in lubing and checking... more he will check you will lube thing though.... G.M>
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#7
05-20-02, 01:27 AM
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I think we are in agreement. The difference is just in the words used. In the aviation circles I have traveled, the words "100 hour inspection" are usually associated with the inspection described in the inspection section of the service manual (page 2-22 in my version). It says (for aircraft flown less than 200 hours per year), if the aircraft is flown for hire, it must receive a COMPLETE AIRCRAFT INSPECTION (caps from the manual) each 100 hours and each 12 calendar months of operation. A COMPLETE AIRCRAFT INSPECTION consists of all 50, 100, 200 and Special Inspection items shown in the inspection charts...
So when many mechanics talk about a "100 hour", they are talking about the eqivalent of an annual. Just as GMAs says, there are also a set of items to be inspected at 100 hour intervals, but that is not the same as a "100 hour inspection" in common parlance. So, my point was that for not flown for hire, a COMPLETE AIRCRAFT INSPECTION, usually called a "100 hour" is not appropriate, and in this in accordance with Cessna's manual. GMAs point that the items that Cessna recommends be checked/performed every 100 hours should in fact be done every 100 hours is unassailable. I pulled out the service manual and looked at the 100 hour items, I am not at all sure that all of them have been done on my airplane, because the items are vague enough that I am unsure what each means. For example, "Waste gate actuator and controller" is listed as a 100 hour item. What does that mean? I'm sure GMAs or some of the other A&P/AI mechanics that frequent this board could explain. I would love to learn more about these 100 hour items...and some of the 50 hour items...it would be interesting to know what the 50 hour item "anti-ice brushes, slip ring and boots" means completely for example. Inspecting the boots seems easy enough to me, but how to inspect the brushes and slip ring? Wouldn't this require disassembly? How about the item "fuel injection system"? What is the inspection for that? Just visual? Or more? How about "radios, radio controls, avionics and flight instruments"? I don't believe they get any inspection unless they stop working correctly. I know I had the most thorough mechanic in the city (his reputation was well known), but I don't think he was doing some of these things every 50 hours.... I have been depending on the skill and expertise of my A&P to interpret these things, and to do the things that are necessary between annuals. And I also continue to do my best to learn as much as I can about my bird. And I thank all the folks that use this site for helping to continue my education... Kevin
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#8
05-20-02, 02:36 AM
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well that was a bust.... guess I will quit trying to send a picture along with things... still won't take a power point photo... so non to be sent.. lost all the text too... 20 min worth of typing... oh well... come to the next meeting and you will get your answer their... as I can't put it here...
no ability to past anything in... Hmmmmmm.... and it won't attach.. as part of the file... Oh well... next time.. I am tired now... too bad it got lost maybe Kevin can get it back... g.M>
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#9
05-20-02, 09:24 AM
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100 hr
Kevin
Re brushes... You test the deicer and see if all elements are working (hand/temp). For radios, you never do a VOT test ? Never ask for a radio check ? MY MY Inspection, that is what it means. If all looks okay and things move or don't move as the should, there are no cracks, leaks, etc. then you lube it, clean it off, or go on to the next item. Waste gate is a good example, however, you use mouse milk. Most is common sense based on the past 100 hrs of flying,especially if you have done it yourself. IF the flaps are quite retracted, time to fix. If the breaks are noisy, clean and repair. If a leaky cylinder, time to overhaul. Check air filters, alternate air door magnets (so they don't fall into the turbo), and all filters for that matter. It also is important to consider when your annual is due. Sometimes better to do annual at 11 months than 100 hr then annual a month later. You are looking for trouble and hopefully you do not find any. I am sure GMAS has a 1)critical list, 2)important list, 3)do more or less list and finally a 4)catch it at the annual list. If in doubt check with the IA and get his opinion. Also it the the 50 hr mark for plugs, magneto, and "general tuneup" time. There is no reason to swing the gear if it was done within the last few months, or if there are NO leaks or change in oil level from the last time it was swung. Again, common sense. I do check the bulkheads on the props, and check for cracks etc. on all parts. IE. Do you fix the small oil leak around the rocker cover gasket or leave it for the annual? Perhaps GMAS might elaborate (on paper) special things that should be targeted at the 50,100 and 200 hrs. but not going into life limited parts or time limited replacement parts.. Items that should be flagged based on his experience. This would be great to have on the clip board when you have an electric screwdriver and a pocket full of new bits.... and an IA hanging over your shoulder. IA's don't know every aeroplane and unless you tell him specifically what is wrong or what you want done he is going to do what he thinks works. Best to take a "337" supplement and tell him to look at these items specifically. GMAS, you up to this ? Bob
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#10
05-20-02, 11:39 AM
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wife
My wife and I looked this over, and we're going to do the "inspection" part of this. GMAS points out that swing the gear is a 200 hr or annual thing. Our annual happens in October.
Given our knowledge of the BIG FBO (not the friendly FBO) that has done the previous annuals (never check hydraulic fluid, rivets hanging out, etc.) we want to check the cables, check the hoses, etc. GMAS pointed out that you can start prepping for the annual 3 months ahead, and we can take this time to check hoses and things that we will want to start replacing at annual time. Thanks,
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#11
05-20-02, 01:49 PM
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I wrote a long part of the process last night but, the web rejected it because I tried to put a picture in with it... from power point.. that I took back to a JPEG... but, all was lost I guess...
Anyway... look in the service manual and it will tell you what items need to be serviced, inspected... and yes your mechanic can do the work and deligate some of it down to you... As tothe time on the items and what to look for it clearly shows in earlier pages what for instance the items on the nose gear they want you to look at... and what lubes and all to use... even though they say in the checklist... nose gear... Now as to inspection and lubing... Inspection is to be done by the mechanic... lubing can be deligated to the person doing the work like the owner/operator.. this is a simple manintance as required thing... and as such you are the one that can perform the work... I have a list of items that the owner/operator can preform on their aircraft... and if one looks in either the FARs or 42-13 apendex you can see what is allowed and not... basicly it is lubing adding fluids, checking levels and minor items that are simple in nature ... anything except sparkplugs and safetywiring the filters and torquing the pan nut and safetywiring it ... is about all the stuff that one can do without a supervision thing from a mechanic... All these items that you do must be put in the log book... and noted... One thing to remember... your bottom is borne by the plane and the lives that are in it are in your hands when you start to work on a plane... even putting in spark plugs wrong can end in disaster... so one might keep that in mind and make sure they are shown the correct way to do thing... least they meet the lawyers who are sitting on the fence looking for a lunch... to come by.... Items and times are to be accomplished at the times due... at/or each annual ... yes you do them all at annual ... or at least your supposed to... As to when it clearly states in the manufacturs manual on maintance that they want things done during the time intervals... however, their are also the other parts that require their service also... i.e. you have the plane... and its manufacture, the engine and its.. the propeller and its... and then you have all the accessories and theirs... each has a service time and limits that you have to check... most have service manuals like the plane has... and in their they detail how to inspect and determine limits per their requirements... Sounds like we need a nother session to cover this stuff again... 8 hours is just not enough time to cover everything...
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#13
05-20-02, 03:59 PM
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You will save money.... by doing some of the stuff yourself... you should only have the mechanic come check the stuff that you are doing... and some of the specialized stuff... When Kevin says its a 100 hr... it really is not... its normal routine maintance... until it involves a item that is not on the list that owners/operators can do... such as checking the cable tension... their it takes a special piece of equipment.... and knowledge of what to do... before attempting it...
Changing oil and filters yourself... especially if you get them from some place like Chief aircraft supply and the oil from the local jobber... you can save from what we have seen up to 300 bucks... by doing the job yourself... you will need a couple of tools and some special stuff... a new gasket for the fwd engine pan...and some safety wire..0.030 ss sold in spools... The grease that is used most of the time on the fittings and rails is 81322A,b,c again refer to the service manual for the proper itmes... they are listed in the front of the service part... buy a 5 lb can of grease.. and keep it closed up when not in use... its cheeper... and will last you a long while... Tools.. ahhh here is where sears shines... with their good all around tool sets... you don't need a big one... just 3/8 and 1/4 dirve stuff will work... the only thing is screwdrives... Use apex bit holders... sears sells them... on the 1/4 drive adapter... looks like a screwdriver but, has a 1/4 squair end.... YOu should start seeing a savings in the mechanics cost too... as you do some of the lubing yourself... so that 50 or 75 bucks an hour that he chargers should drop from 8 hrs to 2 or so... As to the things that need to be inspected and looked at at the periodic intervals... (I won't call them the 100 hr stuff) is more lube and looking.. and if you don't see where it says to take anything out... don't... its not a annual... its more a lube and check thing.... the annual is when you get to pay the IA for his look see.. and you have to do all the itmes... and your right if you start 3 months earlier you need to make sure that its completed in a timely manner... looking at the plane is checking for replacement itmes... Lubeing is where you check for slipping and sliding and metal wear.... Now if you can get the wife out to clean after you have lubed... great.. but, just remember... the pay is never good enough and the boss has a tendency to be too flirtatious... and the bum doesn't even buy lunch... smile...
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#14
05-20-02, 10:28 PM
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Lawyers sitting on the fence?
GMAS, concerning your statement above:
"least they meet the lawyers who are sitting on the fence looking for a lunch... to come by.... " Hell, I haven't been on the fence in years . . . .  And it usually ain't lunch I'm looking for, it's a full fleged dinner Keven ________ Gsx-r series Last edited by Keven : 04-23-11 at 05:41 PM.
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