Skymaster Forum  

Go Back   Skymaster Forum > Messages
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-10-20, 12:32 PM
TomM's Avatar
TomM TomM is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Iowa
Posts: 62
TomM is on a distinguished road
New Skymaster Owner

Good morning all! I have been lurking for many years and have just reciently become a member as well as a new Skymaster owner. The road to this point has been less than exciting and filled with road blocks. However, you cant kill a dream about owning one of these remarkable aircraft!!

The first road block was the Bells............After talking to them and getting ready to utilize them for my flight training I was all fired up and ready to go! However, when they found out I was still looking for a plane, they offered me the one they have for sale. I respectfully declined as it was not what I wanted. The very next email from them was that any other skymaster will require $50k to make airworthy and that they would not subject their employees to flying an unariworthy aircraft so I better find another instructor.

Injured, but not down I continued on........

Found a plane I liked but couldnt get the price right. However, the owner is the absolute nicest guy you would ever be able to meet. Turns out he is a CFII and even though I didnt buy his plane, he was eager to train me AND has a DPE that will do a center thrust rating......life was looking way better!

Found another plane and ignored the warnign signs......took forever to get the logs, non responsive in general and minimal descriptions in the log entries. But I attributed that to the fact that he was an A&P/IA and figured he took great care regardless of the quality of the log entries. I may have been mistaken about that......

Hired a mechanic for the prebuy and gave him a long list of skymaster specific things to look for. Prebuy came back good with no major issues.

The plane was flown 1.5 hours from its home base to the delivery point. And that was that, with no issues reported. However on the next engine start up, the rear prop would not feather below 2000 rpm, oil pressure was low, brakes didnt work.....all this within 1.5 hours after a prebuy.......and none of these issues are skymaster specific.......seems strange significant items like this would just "pop" up....

Brakes were shot and getting relaced, not a huge deal. The rear engine oil pressure is somewhat bothersome. We are checking the oil pressure relief valve as the oil temp is up as well and since the relief valve is before the oil cooler, that condition tends to increase the oil temp.

I remain undaunted!

Thanks to the members of this group, I have a full budget on stand by for the first few annuals and things like this. I am just hoping the low oil pressure is a quick fix and not an engine tear down.

I was (still am) excited about starting training this weekend if all works out.

After 1500 hrs of SE flying I am really looking forward to becoming one of you guys and continuing to learn more through this site.

Thanks a ton!!

Last edited by TomM : 03-10-20 at 01:25 PM. Reason: Had wrong name
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-10-20, 06:30 PM
Dan schultz Dan schultz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 42
Dan schultz is on a distinguished road
Welcome

I am doing the annual on my P337 that I acquired in October, I am an A&P doing the work myself, will probably be 30k in parts and repairs without labor since the aircraft has not been maintained properly in the last 20 years, but in the end is a great aircraft. Mine is a 74 model, all three tanks in the left wing cracked, and assuming the three tanks in the right wing are also cracked, tanks are flimsy with no baffles.

Dan
N67S
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-10-20, 08:22 PM
frank.oconnor19 frank.oconnor19 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: KAKH
Posts: 92
frank.oconnor19 is on a distinguished road
Welcome

Owning this airplane is a labor of love. Learn to do some of the stuff yourself, will save you a ton, and you will learn more about the plane.

When my partner, John Cooper, and I purchased our plane, the rear engine was a problem for heat as well. We did a couple of things, that depending on how long your plane sat, I highly recommend.

1. Get the oil cooler serviced, this will help
2. If you can get the correct socket, John and Bruce( local mechanic) used a grinder to get the thickness of the correct socket thin enough to get on the Oil Cooler valve.
3. Make sure you plug the holes and gaps in the rear engine baffles.

Be a crazy person about keeping the engine cool enough, slow dow a few knots, make the engine much happier.

And for others here, correct me if I am wrong, but the oil pressure has everything to do with how well the propeller feathers. Change the oil, have it looked at.

Finally - where are you based?

Frank
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-12-20, 11:59 AM
TomM's Avatar
TomM TomM is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Iowa
Posts: 62
TomM is on a distinguished road
Frank:

I am totally planning on doing as much as I can. I am a highly capable mechanic/engineer. The issue is that I am in Iowa, and the plane is in Oklahoma. I have been troubleshooting with the mechanic down there. I asked him to pull the oil pressure relief valve as it is located before the oil cooler. So if it is dumping oil, there is less oil getting cooled leading to higher temps. See the attached pics. Needless to say, this was a good call. Cleaned the port, ordered the new style adjustable relief valve. Since I will not be back down there for a week or more, I am going to have him pull the oil cooler and send it to QAA for an exchange.

On the propeller side of things, we have to keep in mind that constant speed props work just the opposite of feathering props. CS props rely on pressure to INCREASE the pitch, and feathering props rely on pressure to DECREASE the pitch. That is why if you have a full engine stoppage, you can still feather the prop on a twin. In addition, the governor has a high pressure pump in it, so as long as it gets oil, the governor will boost the pressure to the prop. The SUPER NICE guys at H and S propeller have worked on the props in the past so I called them. He said it is very common to have to adjust a screw on the side of the governor to allow the prop to de-oil faster in feather mode. He said that my prop feathers at a higher RPM because the counter weights in the prop are helping push the oil out. He gave me a test to run, but wants me to send him a picture of the governor so he can walk me through the adjustment.

I am headed down to OK to putts around with it this weekend. I am still very excited about the whole deal. I totally expected this to be a labor of love, so no worries there. I just wish people were more up front about issues instead of trying to hide them. Even if I can't fly this weekend, I am totally stoked to sit in it and make engine noises........you all cant see it, but I have a huge grin on my face right now!!

You guys are great!
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg oil relief 2.jpeg (456.2 KB, 502 views)
File Type: png oil relief 1.png (788.6 KB, 600 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-12-20, 02:31 PM
patrolpilot's Avatar
patrolpilot patrolpilot is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: South Texas
Posts: 177
patrolpilot is on a distinguished road
Welcome, Tom! You will get through this and be on your way! Any pictures of your airplane?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-12-20, 03:10 PM
TomM's Avatar
TomM TomM is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Iowa
Posts: 62
TomM is on a distinguished road
The Great Pumpkin??

Thanks for the welcome! Here is a pic......its needs a splash of trim color to offset all that orange! Now you guys dont start calling it the pumpkin.....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg plane.jpg (274.9 KB, 519 views)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-12-20, 03:38 PM
JAG JAG is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 221
JAG is on a distinguished road
Tom - So awesome, thanks for sharing the picture.

I think you are on the right track with the oil pressure relief - that thing looks badly scored and likely not letting the spring do its work. I once had an oil pressure relief valve stick open (on a single engine aircraft). Just after takeoff, turning out of the circuit at about 900 ft AGL - I look down and I have about 5 psi of oil pressure. NOTE:Was doing a break-in flight on the engine from overhaul, and this was about hour 4 of flying (multiple take-off and landings).

Anyway, I reduced throttle and pressure went to zero, temps normal, no oil on windscreen...WTF. What seemed like a minute was likely only a few seconds, I started my turn back to the airport, made a radio call and decided to shut the engine down rather than run it without pressure. After gliding in for a safe landing and letting the adrenaline wear off, I started troubleshooting all the usual suspects. Last thing I removed was the pressure relief valve, and that little poppet did not slide out easy (which it should). Small amount of scoring was all it took for that thing to hang up. Replaced it and the housing - never had a problem since.

Point of my story is - chase all the easy things first. Most of my oil pressure or oil temperature related issues have been oil coolers and pressure regulating valves...and surprisingly, after they have been overhauled!!!! I only install new oil coolers now.
Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-12-20, 04:44 PM
patrolpilot's Avatar
patrolpilot patrolpilot is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: South Texas
Posts: 177
patrolpilot is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomM View Post
Thanks for the welcome! Here is a pic......its needs a splash of trim color to offset all that orange! Now you guys dont start calling it the pumpkin.....
Dude, I love it!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-30-20, 07:34 PM
YankeeClipper's Avatar
YankeeClipper YankeeClipper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: CT
Posts: 153
YankeeClipper is on a distinguished road
I believe that would be the "Jet Glow" pumpkin, if memory serves.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-31-20, 05:16 PM
TomM's Avatar
TomM TomM is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Iowa
Posts: 62
TomM is on a distinguished road
Operation "get my plane" update

Pumpkin.......ouch!

Quick update for you guys. As noted below, my new plane ended up in Oklahoma as that is where I happened to find a MEI that had good experience in a Skymaster and the plane was originally in Texas. So a few weeks ago I went down there and touched and drooled all over the thing in the hanger while it down poured the entire weekend - no flying. Drove home and on the following Monday - company wide travel restrictions - UGH!

So here I sit, 650 miles away from the plane all bummed out for god knows how long.

But in my small northern Iowa community the stars may have aligned.....I was watching a Youtube video on multi engine training and I saw a video that featured a local guy that is a major player in the Commemorative Air Force. I figured that a guy that has flown a zillion different war birds might have skymaster time. So I reached out to him and guess what, he does! And to go one step further, he is a DPE and said he can do the center thrust rating - but he cant train AND be the DPE so still a slight dilemma.

Enter my neighbor from when I first moved to Mason City 20 years ago. I connected with him on an unrelated topic and low and behold he is a MEI and he has skymaster time as well! So the clouds parted, the sun shined down on me and all is better than it was when I woke up this morning.

So now I have a MEI and DPE right in my back yard. They both said they would go down and pick up the plane and bring it home for me. All that needs to be done now is coordinate schedules and weather.

Hopefully the next update will be a picture of the skymaster squeezed into my hanger - 6" clearance each side of the wing - safe and sound.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-01-20, 01:34 AM
YankeeClipper's Avatar
YankeeClipper YankeeClipper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: CT
Posts: 153
YankeeClipper is on a distinguished road
It's a great color if you ask me. Had my eye on that one for a while.

Sure would love to get back in mine, but going on the fifth month now just to get a fuel pump, nose strut, and master cylinder overhauled.

And that just gets it ferry-able ... if I'm lucky.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-19-20, 11:54 PM
TomM's Avatar
TomM TomM is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Iowa
Posts: 62
TomM is on a distinguished road
A quick update for all of you. Last Thursday I flew from Oklahoma to Ohio for my check ride. All went good with Brad Newman at Tiffin Aire. Supper great guy. Flew back to Oklahoma that same day to drop off my instructor. After a good night sleep (finally) I left Friday and flew my bird home to Iowa solo...filed IFR, climbed through the clouds to severe clear and all went great. It was an awesome feeling to get through the training and the check ride. I have a list of things to start working on to make this plane my plane, and I am very much looking forward to it. She leaks oil because I think it has been sitting. After the first 2 days of training the oil leaking slowed, but the push rod tube ends at the engine case are dripping wet. Easy enough to start chipping away and working my way down. No leaking at the crank seal.

I cant get over how slippery these things are! At less than gross it beats all the cruise speeds noted in the book. Very happy with everything!!

I am going to post my instructor in the instructor part of the forms. Brad Newman the DPE has been mentioned a number of times here, but my instructor has not.

Feels great to have a AMEL with a center thrust limitation!!!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-20-20, 08:19 AM
frank.oconnor19 frank.oconnor19 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: KAKH
Posts: 92
frank.oconnor19 is on a distinguished road
Congrats.

We had to do the push rod seals as well. is tedious but worth it. The amount of work to get the oil leaks under control is worth it. I wish you luck. I love owning my plane.

Frank
N326 - 1976 P337
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-20-20, 01:47 PM
cessnadriver cessnadriver is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Franklin, Pa.
Posts: 326
cessnadriver is on a distinguished road
New Skymaster Owner

Tom M.
Great job on your new CLT rating!! I just finished mine in February, 2020. I own a 1965 C337 and also have the oil leaks from the push rod seals. I also bought 6 rebuild cylinders from Gibson Avn, Oklahoma, cost me $5200. Plan on replacing them on the rear engine due to 3 cylinders with low compression. When I started training from my home airport I noticed I was using a quart of oil per engine in about two flight hours. Thankfully the leakage has slowed to about 1/4 quart per engine in 3 hours of flight. Mostly through the push rod seals. AFTER I paint my plane this summer I hope to do the seals afterwards. Since I'm an A&P that will save me a lot of money, doing it myself. Good luck with yours!
Regards, BILLS
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-20-20, 09:11 PM
TomM's Avatar
TomM TomM is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Iowa
Posts: 62
TomM is on a distinguished road
Thanks Bill and Frank. I do love it! I also started out losing about 1 quart every 2 hours - what a mess. It has slowed to a quart every 6 hours so its better, but still on the messy side. My mechanic has the seals in stock and I am on his schedule.....but he is booked out till mid summer. So hopefully it will continue to slow down.

After seeing the great posts about the side window replacement, I am going to knock that out over the summer as well. They are quite milky.

Although the solid orange color is growing on me, we will be splashing some trim color on it this summer as well. As with most folks I am sure, it will be a work in progress until I cant fly any more......
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.