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  #16  
Unread 01-09-21, 11:08 AM
cessnadriver cessnadriver is offline
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Thumbs down GPSS options with 400A

Hello everyone. Quick basic question. I have a '65 C337. When I purchased my plane, it came with a Nav400, IN A BOX. I was advised, from a hangar neighbor, that Autopilot Central is the place to have the 400 bench checked/repaired. My question is what instruments drives the Nav 400? The AI, HG or turn coordinator? The reason I'm asking is I'm sure that those instruments have been changed from the originals. So I'm looking at pricing replacement instruments? I don't want to spend the money to install a $30,000 S-tec in a plane that I paid $22,500 for! Actually after buying a overhauled Cont IO-360C and six rebuilt cylinders for the other engine I'm in for over $40,000. But still If I wanted a $70,000 aircraft I'd buy a newer C337, that's better equipped, in that price range.
Thanks in advance!
Regards,
BILLS

Last edited by cessnadriver : 01-09-21 at 11:13 AM.
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  #17  
Unread 01-09-21, 12:27 PM
frank.oconnor19 frank.oconnor19 is offline
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So it all depends on where you are based. I am pretty happy with the work done at Carpenter Avionics. Based in the Nashville area at Smyrna. Good work,fair price. They got all of the components working together correctly. Best if you can take the plane to whomever, lots of moving parts....
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  #18  
Unread 01-10-21, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cessnadriver View Post
My question is what instruments drives the Nav 400? The AI, HG or turn coordinator? The reason I'm asking is I'm sure that those instruments have been changed from the originals.
The attitude and heading indicator. I dig the part numbers out in a bit.
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  #19  
Unread 01-10-21, 12:39 PM
frank.oconnor19 frank.oconnor19 is offline
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A great deal also is dependent on the features you autopilot has. Two axis? Alt hold? Auto trim? Do you have a slaved DG? Is there a flight director? I can give the name of a guy in MI that is kind of an autopilot whisperer.
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  #20  
Unread 01-11-21, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank.oconnor19 View Post
A great deal also is dependent on the features you autopilot has. Two axis? Alt hold? Auto trim? Do you have a slaved DG? Is there a flight director?.
What Frank said about features. On the AQI site, see the ARC instruments. You will need to get into the Avionics installation and parts manuals to figure out what you have in the box.
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  #21  
Unread 01-11-21, 03:23 PM
cessnadriver cessnadriver is offline
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Smile GPSS options with 400A

Patrol Pilot. Thanks for the reply. I have the original equipment list. I'll check it to see if lists the instruments. Also check the part numbers of the instrument in the box of autopilot parts. But I think there is only an AI.
Regards, BILLS
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  #22  
Unread 01-11-21, 08:55 PM
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The Nav-O-Matic 400 (Straight 400) had two versions that I am aware of. There was an early model with a little different control head and then the current unit used up to about 1969 I think. It seems the change from the early 400 to the latest 400 was about 1968. Attached are a couple cut sheets of the systems

If someone needs other info on the Nav-O-Matic 400 I have a couple files about these units. Service and Parts manuals and user manuals
Attached Images
File Type: png Screen Shot 2021-01-11 at 7.47.15 PM.png (590.6 KB, 327 views)
File Type: png Screen Shot 2021-01-11 at 7.49.12 PM.png (541.7 KB, 315 views)
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Flying the same Skymaster for 45 years
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  #23  
Unread 01-13-21, 10:06 AM
cessnadriver cessnadriver is offline
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Nav-o-matic 400

Herb. Thanks for the pictures. I think I have the system on Fig 3-1. But I'll have to go to the airport to check. I may need the manuals you have. I did download the schematics for the head and computer, from you in the past.
Regards, BILLS
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  #24  
Unread 01-20-21, 10:12 AM
cessnadriver cessnadriver is offline
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Red face Navomatic (STRAIGHT) 400

Herb.
Thanks for sending me the thread. I checked the autopilot I have and found I have both types shown in the pictures. The one that was installed in my C337 is FIG 2-1 but the other system I have is FIG 3-1. I contacted Autopilot Central (Tulsa)and Mayday (Michigan) they both say that getting those OLD navomatic (straight) 400 can be difficult to fix and or find the parts. It seams that my 400 requires a DG and a AI. The AI I have is the old type pictured. I was hoping to get a more modern AI that shows more details and color coded (blue/brown). Autopilot Central is quoting about $10,000 to get my system working/installed with a DAC converter.
The other shop is NOT sure about the overall costs? I have contacted tha Nashville shop yet. But will if the other shops can't help!
regards, BILLS
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  #25  
Unread 01-21-21, 08:34 PM
cessnadriver cessnadriver is offline
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Red face Navomatic 400 (Straight)

Herb.
Hello again. I'm looking for 1965 Navomatic autopilot manual. Probably the install manual as I'm trying to determine the DG and AI that are required for the 1965 year 400 Navomatic. I downloaded the manual that you had, but it only shows Chapter 3 and Fig 3-1. My 400 is the one with only one trim light on the control head. If you have Chapter 2 and Fig 2-1 I'd appreciate it.
Thanks.
Regards,
Bill Story bstory@pa.rr.com
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  #26  
Unread 01-22-21, 07:07 PM
cessnadriver cessnadriver is offline
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Red face Navomatic 400 (STRAIGHT)

TO Herb.
Thank you for the manuals. You won't belief it but I have those on CD. What I don't have is the manual you sent me a while back. I don't know what manual it was but the title was Section 3, with a Fig 3-1. BUT I need the Section two of that manual. That's the pre-1966 model. Any chance you have that one? Also while researching Cessna manuals, I learned that according to the Electronics parts manual the original 1965 C337 lists only the Navomatic 200 and 300. The manual states that the 400 was installed starting with serial number 240+. I think that's a 1966 337A. My 1965 serial number is 200. I've asked one of the avionics shops that I'm working with if I can install the 400. So far no answer. I cannot belief that there are no 1965 C337 with 400's installed. Maybe owners of the 1965 models can let me know if they have a 400 installed???
Again many thanks for your assistance!!
Regards, BILLS
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  #27  
Unread 01-24-21, 05:31 AM
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That is a lot of money ($10K) to get the 400 up to speed. The only thing you can do is compare it to the purchase price of a STEC 55 along with the labor to install it against just how bad you want an autopilot.

The avionics shop has not called to bring my airplane yet for the fellow who asked about my installation and the paperwork. I hate bugging the guy as a sole operator; he is always up behind a panel.

I did a very short flight Friday in LIFR to go work with a guy on a High-Performance endorsement. KVCT-KPKV is a short 17nm flight that requires a climb from SL to 3K, a course reversal, and then the LPV approach. The 400A flew it smoothly and to perfection. I attached the 3D View of my track and the approach plate.
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File Type: jpg VCT-PKV Plate.jpg (304.1 KB, 268 views)
File Type: jpg VCT-PKV 3D.jpg (73.4 KB, 271 views)
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  #28  
Unread 01-24-21, 03:17 PM
cessnadriver cessnadriver is offline
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Smile Navomatic 400

TO Patrol pilot.
Thanks for your reply. Yes you are correct, about spending $10K to get my old straight 400 working. But as I stated in an earlier thread, my plane is NOT worth, to me, dumping $30K plus for a new autopilot(S-tek 30). But an investment of LESS THAN $10K would be worth it. I fly long trips in my C337 and at 68 years old the trips are very tiring! With me doing ALL the grunt work I'm hoping to be under $10K? The other reason to invest $10K is I'm currently training for an instrument rating. I just wish, as many other C337 owners, to have one of the New autopilots that single Cessnas and Pipers have as options.
Regards.
Bill Story
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  #29  
Unread 01-24-21, 05:14 PM
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hharney hharney is offline
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Maybe this is the one
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File Type: png Screen Shot 2021-01-24 at 4.12.51 PM.png (346.8 KB, 261 views)
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  #30  
Unread 01-24-21, 06:38 PM
cessnadriver cessnadriver is offline
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Unhappy Navomatic 400

TO: Herb.
No sir, that's the one you sent me before. That is for 1968 C337. I take it you don't have section 2?
Thanks for your continued assistance.
Regards.
BILLS
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