New Member & Purchase Question

[rmorris]

with engine time since overhaul is so high (in number of years), negotiate as if they are full overhaul immediately
then once you have them, fly it like you own it...just keep close watch on compressions and oil at each change.

[kilr4d]

Originally Posted by rmorris

with engine time since overhaul is so high (in number of years), negotiate as if they are full overhaul immediately
then once you have them, fly it like you own it...just keep close watch on compressions and oil at each change.

Agreed. Sit down with the seller and discuss the borescope pictures. If he won't deal then you have to walk.

If you do end up owning it, fly it hard and fast for 10 hours then dump the oil and do another borescope.

[tomcomet]

Originally Posted by kilr4d

Agreed. Sit down with the seller and discuss the borescope pictures. If he won't deal then you have to walk.

If you do end up owning it, fly it hard and fast for 10 hours then dump the oil and do another borescope.

So you are telling me this kind of thing can"go away"...?

[kilr4d]

Originally Posted by tomcomet

So you are telling me this kind of thing can"go away"...?

Yes. The key word here is *MINOR*.

Option 1 is that there's minor pitting on the cylinder walls it can be scraped off by the rings with no ill effect. (This is more likely if you pull the plugs, pre-oil the engine and turn it over by hand until your arms and back ache.)

Option 2 is that the cylinders need to be be rehoned but not overbored and you reuse all the parts.

Option 3 is that the cylinders need to be overbored and you essentially require a top overhaul.

Option 4 is that the engines are severely corroded internally and you need complete overhauls.

Do you have detailed borescope pictures of each cylinder?

Edit: That's why I asked you which airplane it is...we're a very small community and somebody is probably familiar with it.

[tomcomet]

Originally Posted by kilr4d

Yes. The key word here is *MINOR*.

Option 1 is that there's minor pitting on the cylinder walls it can be scraped off by the rings with no ill effect. (This is more likely if you pull the plugs, pre-oil the engine and turn it over by hand until your arms and back ache.)

Option 2 is that the cylinders need to be be rehoned but not overbored and you reuse all the parts.

Option 3 is that the cylinders need to be overbored and you essentially require a top overhaul.

Option 4 is that the engines are severely corroded internally and you need complete overhauls.

Do you have detailed borescope pictures of each cylinder?

There were a number of boroscopes in play yesterday and none were that great as far as I am concerned. The one that gave the best "view" was the simpliest with an eye piece and a light. That was what I personally saw thepitting the best with. The other two were Rigid and Stanley type digital units with crappy little screens that could be magnified but did not give a lot of detail. None had the ability to take photos and I didn't thing to take a photo of the screen (bad).

These engines had a top end overhaul less than 50 hours ago but that was also something like 10 years ago.

Keep in mind - these are original engines with 1440 hours on them. It is kind of a unique situation.

[tomcomet]

Got a rough quote from Brant Aero. They are a very well known shop based at the airport I fly out of in Brantford Ontario. I have seen them mentioned a few times on this forum as well.

Tomorrow we will get the results from cutting the filters and checking the oil from the last two oil changes. That will tell us more about the current state of the engines.

I was loosely quoted $38,000 USD plus $1000 shipping and then $7,500 $CAD per engine PLUS whatever else is needed (belts, hoses, whatever). WOW! This airplane thing really is a whole new ballgame and, oh yeah, I need TWO BLOODY ENGINES!!!

I was told if the engine analysis comes back clean I can 1) fly with these up to and and past TBO (obviously) or 2) replace an engine at a time as time and budgets allow.

It is frustrating because everything else we looked at on this plane was in great shape. It just didn't get flown enough and now it is barely worth anything because it needs two engines.

Any other options that I am not seeing here..?

Perhaps it is just time to walk away...

[kilr4d]

Originally Posted by tomcomet

It is frustrating because everything else we looked at on this plane was in great shape. It just didn't get flown enough and now it is barely worth anything because it needs two engines.

Lol.

Welcome the to world of 40 - 50 year old piston twins. Doesn't matter if it's a Seminole or a C421...not uncommon for runout engines to signal the end of the airplane.

[hharney]

Engines and/or cylinders are commodity items 😀 Nothing is cheap but they are replaceable. The airframe is not. If this thing is so clean as you say then go for it! Buy the damn thing like you know the engines need replaced. They are at TBO right? If you end up getting 600 hours out of them then bonus. There is no guarantee if you bought one with new engines. When you buy these old planes you need to plan for $20,000 a year for the first couple years before they stabilize and stop bleeding. Airplanes that sit with no use will need some real,serious maintenance for the first couple years. The Skymasters are not 172's with two engines. They are complex airplanes that need continuous TLC.

Good luck Tom