What are you paying for insurance?

PaulRX · #1 03-11-21, 12:42 PM

I got one tire-kicker quote for a P337 from AIG. I gave them a $115K hull value. With 950TT, 75 retract, and 0 ME, they quoted me $4600/year. Ouch. I presume it would be lower if I had multi time, but I am wondering how much lower-- that's more than 2x what I pay per year for a three-pilot policy on a PA32 with a $150K hull value.

What are y'all paying for your policy?

edasmus · #2 03-11-21, 01:34 PM

Hi Paul,

To be honest, I'm surprised you received any quote at all for a twin seeing as you have no twin time and relatively low retract time. Couple that with you considering a P-model as well, as I said, I'm shocked someone even quoted you.

It appears today's insurance world is about as challenging as its ever been in my 30 years of airplane ownership which is why I made my previous comment. I purchased my 1973 C337G (no pressure, no turbo, you'd have both of those features) in 2002 with 14 hours of multi engine time (which were the hours acquired to get my conventional multi and ATP ratings). I also had a little more than 1500 hours total time of which half of that was retract time.

To the best of my recollection my first year was about $2500 for $90K hull and a million liability with the $100K per passenger limitation. Over the years and hours, that steadily reduced to a low of about $1900 for the same coverage. About two years ago that all changed and jumped back up to the $2500 annual renewal. My hours now are about 3500 total time with 1400 hours in type and still flying/owning the same Skymaster.

Like yourself, I moved up from a Cherokee 6 (great airplane). As my mechanic warned me back in 2002, THE SKYMASTER IS NOTHING LIKE A CHEROKEE 6 WHEN IT COMES TO MAINTENANCE! He was right.

I do not want to scare you off at all, BUT in my little opinion, you will likely pay 3 times (maybe 4 if not more) to maintain a pressurized Skymaster than a Cherokee 6. I'm sure the opinions will vary widely and if you read my posts over the years on this site, I readily admit I likely pay more than most for maintenance.

Two reasons for this are I do very little maintenance myself other than oil changes etc., and I live in Chicago. I pay a Cessna certified repair station to do all my maintenance and have had the same IA for almost the entire 30 years I have owned airplanes. There is nothing he does not know about Cessna aircraft. I have paid handsomely for it but in return my airplane works. If you posses the skills and tools and are able to do your own maintenance, then your operating costs will reduce significantly. I simply want your expectations to be in line with the step up you are considering. The people on this site love their Skymasters and so do I. I am extremely happy looking back that I still operate mine BUT, they are not cheap.

The best of luck with your search!

Sincerely,

Ed

cessnadriver · #3 03-11-21, 02:22 PM

PaulRX.
Here's my situation. Three years ago I purchased a 1965 C337. I had a total of 900 hrs TT, With 200 hrs commercial helicopter time. NO Complex, NO twin, 100 hrs. high performance. I was quoted about $2200, no hull. BUT I was only covered while flying with my CFI/MEI and NOT flying solo! Last year I covered the plane with $35,000 hull, new premium is $2500. The agent is Hoxton.com in WV. Also I'm 68 years old and I do my own maintenance.
Hope this helps.
Regards.
Bill Story
Owner, pilot, A&P

rrolland · #4 03-11-21, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulRX

I got one tire-kicker quote for a P337 from AIG. I gave them a $115K hull value. With 950TT, 75 retract, and 0 ME, they quoted me $4600/year. Ouch. I presume it would be lower if I had multi time, but I am wondering how much lower-- that's more than 2x what I pay per year for a three-pilot policy on a PA32 with a $150K hull value.

What are y'all paying for your policy?

Actually not a bad quote in this market given your experience. Not sure what liability limits you were quoted but here are my numbers:

P337. 150K Hull. $ 100 deductible not in motion, $ 1K deductible in motion. 1M liability/200K per seat.

Premium was $3,800.00

I have 22K hours total, with 21K on multi engines. 300 hours on type.

Richard

Jerry De Santis · #5 03-11-21, 04:20 PM

Last year I paid $4200 for insurance. I have more than 3400 hours in twins. 2800 hours in my current P337G. I had no incidences and now because I turned 80 years old last December, they require that I have a copilot at all times rated in my aircraft. That is now forcing me to sell my plane. So if anyone is interested in a well maintain plane please contact me. 269-275-6613 or jerrydesantis@hotmail.com. BTW, if I wanted to fly fix gear single engine plane I can get insurance. So for you pilots in the early 70's be aware what the insurance companies are doing.

PaulRX · #6 03-11-21, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrolland

Actually not a bad quote in this market given your experience. ...I have 22K hours total, with 21K on multi engines. 300 hours on type.

Sheesh, in that case it's amazing they quoted me at all! If someone with your experience is still being charged $3800 for insurance, then I'll quit griping about being charged slightly more. To be clear, this is just the automated what-if "quote" that AIG produces; that doesn't mean that they'd actually write me the policy if I called them to take them up on it.

TomM · #7 03-11-21, 05:54 PM

The hull value makes a big difference. When I got my plane last year, I had 1200 hours in a 172 and 0 in anything else (other than my IFR), let a lone a skymaster. For $1M, small deductible, $100K passenger and $47k hull I paid $2800 but needed to have 20 hrs dual and 50 takeoffs and landings - which were accomplished during my training.

This year I was thinking that since I put 110 hours on the plane last year, my rates would go down. Well, they did not. My insurer from last year wanted to raise them $250 AND have 10 hrs dual. I found an other carrier that gave me the same limits for $2830 - so ended up being only $30 more than last year. I am 53 years old.

As said below, the insurance market is a crazy animal. But the overwhelming factor will be the hull value.

A follow up note on the maintenance. I am extremely thankful for this form. I read a lot of postings on what people were paying for maintenance and annual inspections. I used that knowledge to hold off buying a skymaster for several years while I built up a cash maintenance fund. These are great plans, but they do cost to maintain so dont go into it thinking anything else. I budgeted for the first 2 years annuals to be $18K, with $12k annuals after that - first annual came in less than expected, so off to a good start. If you go into it being smart, it is a great experience!

Learjetter · #8 03-11-21, 11:15 PM

2021: I'm going to pay about $3500 for $120k hull. $1M liability, zero deductible. Gonna ask agent about raising deductible to lower premium. I have about 4500 hours, mostly complex big jet turbine, and about 50 in my 337 that I fell into last year.

2023: Got AIG renewal quote for $3853. $120K hull, ground and flight, $1M/$100K/$5K liability, $0 deductibles, normally aspirated, with several "discounts" applied. According to the agent, I'm smack dab in the middle of what everyone else is paying. He also says AIG and other companies are "getting out" of the "older ME" market and no longer quoting the older multiengine aircraft, and especially not 337s.

patrolpilot · #9 03-12-21, 08:26 AM

Mine is attached, not a P, mouth breather.

patrolpilot · #10 03-12-21, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry De Santis

Last year I paid $4200 for insurance. I have more than 3400 hours in twins. 2800 hours in my current P337G. I had no incidences and now because I turned 80 years old last December, they require that I have a copilot at all times rated in my aircraft. That is now forcing me to sell my plane. So if anyone is interested in a well maintain plane please contact me. 269-275-6613 or jerrydesantis@hotmail.com. BTW, if I wanted to fly fix gear single engine plane I can get insurance. So for you pilots in the early 70's be aware what the insurance companies are doing.

Sorry to hear it, Jerry, same thing is happening around here. I plan on flying mine another 10 years, I will be 77. Might put a 100' pedestal on my property, and set my airplane on top of it. It will be 54 years old at that point.

Anybody flying without insurance?

KLRDMD · #11 03-12-21, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulRX

I got one tire-kicker quote for a P337 from AIG. I gave them a $115K hull value. With 950TT, 75 retract, and 0 ME, they quoted me $4600/year. Ouch. I presume it would be lower if I had multi time, but I am wondering how much lower-- that's more than 2x what I pay per year for a three-pilot policy on a PA32 with a $150K hull value. What are y'all paying for your policy?

Check very closely and ask three times if the quote is for a "Pressurized" 337. My initial quote (not from my regular broker) came back surprisingly low. I asked and was told yes, that was for a pressurized 337. I asked two more times before binding and finally the third time I asked (I think he got worried) it came back that no, it was a quote for a Turbocharged but not pressurized 337. The P337's designation is T337G so it is easy to get confused. My long time agent had the best quote with the best transition training requirements, of course.

Two months ago a friend of mine with private and instrument and no multi rating yet got a quote on a $125k P337 for $7,936 (plus obtain a multi rating and 25 hours of dual).

I have CFI, CFII, MEI & ATP (that I originally got in a previous P337 I owned). 2,200 hours total time, 2,000 retract, 775 multi, 125 in P337 with another 100 in P210 (pressurized hours help). In October I ended up paying $4,610 for $120k hull.

If you can get insured in a P337 for $4,600 that's dirt cheap today. I assume they are requiring formal school. If not, I can guarantee you your quote was for a T337 and not a P337.

PaulRX · #12 03-13-21, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLRDMD

Check very closely and ask three times if the quote is for a "Pressurized" 337.

This was not a quote, in the sense that the insurer isn't obligated to sell me the insurance; it's what AIG labels as a "tire kicker." I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were wildly wrong, which is why I was asking here. Given that others in the thread were quoted similar amounts when they have thousands of hours (and hundreds in type), and I don't, I lean towards you being correct.