Complete interior re-furbish

[WebMaster]

Nice pictures
The panel picture shows the King PFD, actually, a full size cardboard version, in place. It is substantially larger than the Aspen PFD.

[hharney]

Thanks Jeff I will take a look at the black units up there. What is the best method of treating the corrosion under those units? I wondered what those were. I think the unit on the door came off and that is where I saw the corrosion. What type of foam do you have, any idea? Here is the stuff I was looking at.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...oofinstall.php

I figured while the interior is gutted now is the time to do this. I will take a look under the spots and let everyone know what there is.

BTW, thanks for the encouragement (spending the money)

[JeffAxel]

Herb,
That looks like the foam I have. When we removed that lead soundproofing and found corrosion, we cleaned up the surface with Scotchbrite, did an acid etch and Alodyne, then applied a coat of Zinc Chromate primer. That was the recommendation of my mechanic, and he suggested we remove all that stuff in the belly of the plane as well.
The foam was cut to match the location it was placed very meticulously, it must have taken a few hours to get all the inside walls and ceiling of the cabin covered. I am glad the plane came to me that way!!

[Guy Paris]

Herb,
Last year at Sun N Fun I talked to this company. http://www.soundexproducts.com/

Guy....

[hharney]

Another day in paradise, snow paradise that is. Winter has officially arrived in Michigan and driving to Kalamazoo this morning to remove more windows from the hull was just about all I could do for excitement. Earlier on the road to Kzoo a pickup crossed over the median and created a head on situation for the on coming traffic. I fatality, not a comforting thought as I proceeded to Larry’s hanger at 50 MPH. Nice thing is, I am not in a hurry. No set time schedule. Makes things a lot easier when the stress is gone. Well because I am now writing this it is evident that I made the trip there and back safely and uneventful.

Enough about that let’s talk aircraft, removal of windows, not too bad. Installing windows, yet to find out. I have all windows out except the windscreen up front. Again it has really been a learning experience. Sorry to bore you if you have been through this already but it’s just plain exciting stuff for me. The AI that is working with me prepped me on removing the rivets and said “have at it”. Well I got them all out and started to clean up the frames. Left side center has a fuel line right along the frame that I was drilling rivets from. That made things a little more exciting but no leaking fuel yet. Larry had some toluene that really make the clean up easy around the frames where the sealant has been for the last 40 years. After scraping the big stuff off with a putty knife I used the toluene to make it look new again. It is really amazing that the sealant was still soft and sticky. 40 years is a long time. The photos below show the before and after and the fuel line.

How do you work comfortably in the cabin of a Skymaster with the interior gutted? Well on a bumper of course. While on my knees working in this wonderful aluminum cave, I decided it would be a lot nicer to have something to sit on. First thing I thought about was a bucket or something and started snooping around Larry’s hanger to see what type of throne I could come up with. All of a sudden I saw several boat bumpers over in the corner. Now when I have used boat bumpers they would make a good seat for a 4 year old but not my fat ____. The bumpers Larry has were for some kind of yacht or something because they are biggies. Just right for a growing boy working on his toy. Anyway I soon learned that using this bumper was just about the best idea that I have had since I installed the 530. I showed my AI and he said WOW that works great. Nice cushy seat and won’t even scratch the floor. With all the irregularities in the floor a bucket is all but stable but with the bumper it just doesn’t matter. It’s stable no matter where on the floor it is. OK enough about my new invention. Anyway next you’re in the plane without seats you gotta try it.

I decided were changing the windscreen too. That will have to be removed next but I will wait for Craig my AI for that one. I did receive the new air vents and looks like they will retro to the existing vents really easy. They should really bring things up to date inside aesthetically. I also bought the battery operated LED under wing light from Knots2U. It will be a nice addition and easy install. Really a cool item. It has a built in timer so that if you turn it on it goes out automatically in 5 minutes. If you need light longer then a different sequence of the power button keeps it on for 15 minutes and then turns off. You can use the provided access panel or use the original under the wing and modify it to mount the light in it.

Seat belts will be shipping next week. The BAS system up front and all new matching lap belts for the other 3 seats. I will be writing more on this with some detail and photos because there have been a lot of questions about these lately. I have never had the 5th seat, not sure what happened to the original. I don’t think we ever got the 5th seat when we bought the plane in 1976. I had used a Cessna 206 rear seat in the past but it really didn’t fit right and not legal. I purchased a seat from Don at Commodore Aero. I will now have that seat re-upholstered to match the new interior. I also found the luggage tray (parcel shelf as Larry calls it) and will have it trimmed to match too. Haven’t used this much but thought I should include it in the redo. Anyone else use this unit? It is hinged to the rear firewall and has spring loaded pins that keep it in position when used or release it and allow it to lay flat against the rear firewall.

Well that’s about enough today, more to come.

[hharney]

Looking at the Hydraulic lines on the main gear and wondering if I should change them while I have this all torn apart. When running my fingers along the braided lines I notice it feels a little like there is hair protruding out of the braiding. Is this rubber? Is this normal or could this be an indication of something?

Also Jeff indicated that I should remove the black patches that are glued to the skin of the interior of the cabin. There were a couple already missing and some corrosion was apparent on the skin where the lead patch was. I removed a couple more but did not find corrosion under them. Some of them seem to be really attached strong and I had a hard time even forcing the putty knife under them. Should I still remove them all? Even if there is no corrosion?

I haven't looked under the floor yet. I assume there are some of these down there too?

[JeffAxel]

Herb,
there were plenty of those lead sheets in the floor of my plane ( '77 T337G ) and there was corrosion under most of the ones near the door. My observation was if they came up relatively easily, there was corrosion underneath. If they were really stuck down well, there wasn't much if any corrosion, like the picture you showed with the shiny aluminum underneath. My guess is that on those sheets, there was glue between the lead and the aluminum preventing contact, water intrusion and thus, dissimilar metal corrosion. The right thing to do is remove all of them just to be sure, but I think a reasonable argument could be made based on the above observation to be selective. I will tell you I left some behind that were stuck well and were in hard places to get to.

[billsheila]

They are cheap compared to a gear up, and they are likely 40 years old. I just had them all done in mine over the last 2 annuals, and this go around had all the fixed hydraulic lines checked and double checked, as well. In one case found some corrosion on a hydraulic line (on the outside) where it was touching a braided brake hose and also another that was scoring where the adel clamp was bent such that the hydraulic line was chafing against a hole punched in a web. It really is the time to check all those lines very carefully (both hoses and lines) while you have it all open. You can see way more than what the typical annual will reveal with small mirrors and flashlights.

Just my thoughts Herb.

[Dale Campbell]

Hi Herb,
If you have everything apart and the gear lines are 40 years old, I would change them.
If one of those lines leak you will never get the gear down, even with the handpump. I have the 78' 337H and changed all hydralic lines just to be safe. they did not cost that much.
Dale

[hharney]

Good advice, it will be done. Where did you source the lines? Has anyone used Precision Hose, PHT, in Tulsa? They indicate that they have a complete kit. I am searching the logs now to see if any hoses have been replaced just as a good exercise. Also checking the Service Manual for requirements, not real clear.

Installing the FM oil filters adaptors, eliminate always cleaning those annoying screens. Also found issues with the rear motor mounts. One is actually cracked and crumbling. New ones on order.

My front engine has plagued me with an oil leak for several years now. Nothing huge but very discouraging. I have looked and looked but haven't been able to really zero in on a obvious source. My AI said that some push rod tubes showed a little wet, could be but I keep thinking there is something on the rear of the front engine that is culprit. What about the alternator? Has anyone had a bad leak around that unit? When I fly 2 - 3 hours and stop I have a couple of small puddles of oil on the front tire and ground. I don't use that much oil in the engine. Maybe 1 - 2 quart for between oil changes (25 hrs). Is that too much? I have 1500 hours on the engine.

Well, I didn't brave the trip yesterday but will be working on it today. I am ordering all the glass today from Great Lakes Aero in Flint, MI. I will be talking to Precision Hose and consulting with Whelen on their LED / strobe position wing tip lights. Has anyone had these installed? Whelen says that I will need to get field approval. It would be a lot easier if I can show another aircraft that has been approved through the FSDO. Even if it is not a Skymaster let me know if you know of anything. This LED technology is amazing. I can't imagine not allowing something like this. It has to be safer (greater visibility for other aircraft), uses a lot less amps, come on get with the program here. Whelen should be more proactive on this.

[Dave Underwood]

I have used Precision Hose before and they were very good. They even sent two free replacement hoses that were wrong on their list when I supplied them the correct details.

Just a note, when you replace the main gear downlock hoses, make sure of their position and that they are not twisted. The downlock remains unpressurized until the gear moves it at which point it pressurizes down and locked. You don't want it to pressurize early by being forced by the hose pressure.

It sounds like a geat job. Where have your folks sourced all the plastic panels?

Please take and post all the pictures you can so we can all enjoy.

A full description of replacing the windshield would be appreciated.

Are you replacing the wing tip light covers? If so, can you let me know a good source as I need mine replaced.

Regards - Dave

[sgmret]

On the first Skymaster I owned, N1873M, way back in 1975, there was an oil leak in the rear engine. It was the gasket for the alternator which is mounted on the rear of that engine. It was rather simple to repair however. On the rear engine there is an inspection plate on the rear bulkhead that opens directly to the alternator. Check the gasket on the alternator if your oil loss is minimal as that is what I found.

[rmorris]

Originally Posted by hharney

Good advice, it will be done. Where did you source the lines? Has anyone used Precision Hose, PHT, in Tulsa? They indicate that they have a complete kit. I am searching the logs now to see if any hoses have been replaced just as a good exercise. Also checking the Service Manual for requirements, not real clear.

Installing the FM oil filters adaptors, eliminate always cleaning those annoying screens. Also found issues with the rear motor mounts. One is actually cracked and crumbling. New ones on order.

My front engine has plagued me with an oil leak for several years now. Nothing huge but very discouraging. I have looked and looked but haven't been able to really zero in on a obvious source. My AI said that some push rod tubes showed a little wet, could be but I keep thinking there is something on the rear of the front engine that is culprit. What about the alternator? Has anyone had a bad leak around that unit? When I fly 2 - 3 hours and stop I have a couple of small puddles of oil on the front tire and ground. I don't use that much oil in the engine. Maybe 1 - 2 quart for between oil changes (25 hrs). Is that too much? I have 1500 hours on the engine.

Well, I didn't brave the trip yesterday but will be working on it today. I am ordering all the glass today from Great Lakes Aero in Flint, MI. I will be talking to Precision Hose and consulting with Whelen on their LED / strobe position wing tip lights. Has anyone had these installed? Whelen says that I will need to get field approval. It would be a lot easier if I can show another aircraft that has been approved through the FSDO. Even if it is not a Skymaster let me know if you know of anything. This LED technology is amazing. I can't imagine not allowing something like this. It has to be safer (greater visibility for other aircraft), uses a lot less amps, come on get with the program here. Whelen should be more proactive on this.

Herb,
I used PHT this summer for the rear engine hose kit. Kim Geyer (frequent poster on this board and overall nice guy) pointed me in their direction. Overall my experience is mixed.

It took them a little longer to get my kit shipped after I ordered it than what they had promised, but then they shipped it overnight at their cost - so a wash on that point.

When I handed the whole kit to my a&p, he said that several hoses were wrong. I quickly emailed their sales rep and told him the lenths and connections (as measured by my a&p) for the 4 or so replacement hoses and asked they overnight them to me - see point #1 about thier initial delay which caused me other scheduling challenges. They said they couldn't ship out that day, but would make them up the next day and ship out to me. OK, sounds like a plan to me (although it then delayed me leaving TX where I was now grounded with a half-done houise sawp out). The new hoses arrived and they fit nicely. So I took the wrong hoses and shipped them back that same very day, at my expense. Thinking, 'wow this finally worked out'....then a few weeks later I looked at my credit card statement and saw that they charged me almost $600. MANY emails later, they finally credited me back about $300. Still don't know why I had to pay them $300 extra, when they had sold me a complete kit. They had even verified my serial number when quoting me the kit.

I will probably use them again, but make sure I have a better written trail on responsibility if any hoses in their 'kit' don't fit.

Also, I noticed on several other posts to this board that others have used Sacramento Sky Ranch for thier hoses.

Finally - you will probably consider the firesleeving option on your hoses, so I'll share that part of the story.
After reading many articles and posts - I decided to firesleeve all the hoses for my rear engine. This cost more, as the hoses in the PHT kit only firesleeve the ones that came that way from the factory. No problem, I decided to pay the extra for a little more peace of mind. You have two firesleeving options - the orange bulky firesleev which is attached by clamps, or the brown firesleev which is basically cooked on. I wanted the brown one, but the PHT rep talked me into the orange ones - saying they were cheaper, faster to make (see my scheduling issue above), and worked just as well. After they arrived, I had lots of issues during the install due to the now much larger size of the hoses with the orange sleeve versus the originals they replaced. Was told by the a&p that the install would have gone much smoother with teh brown cooked on sleeves. Also, understand that the Sac Sky Ranch folks give a lifetime guarantee on the brown sleeved hoses they make.

Hope this all helps,
Robert
________
Ford performance vehicles history

[stackj]

Herb,

I chased an oil leak on my front engine for several months. I finally took the airplane to my FBO and their mechanic found it first try. It was leaking through the seal around the alternator shaft.

[WebMaster]

That's two votes for the alternator seal. Guess I know where you will be looking tonight