Looking for a 2nd 337

Timcote1960 · #1 06-24-21, 11:38 AM

I've owned N639GC about 3yrs now and for one reason or another (4 alternators, rear turbo issues for 6mo, intercooler cracks, 3 engine-outs, wow), she's been stuck to the ground about 70% of the time. I love this P337G but yesterday my AP for the annual gave me bad new: the front (higher time) engine is pumping oil with compressions in the 50s and the rear ain't much better. I expect to write some checks again....

But the real problem is I NEED RELIABLE TRANSPORTATION!!! Ive just taken a work arrangement that requires I fly between DC and NH weekly. Flying the 337 is a joy when it works, and the safety comforts me greatly. The car ride is 8-12 hrs (one never knows) and I hate commercial. Am thinking that a second 337 could offer redundancy in the bird I like.

Next 337 wouldn't need to be be pressurized but I would prefer later model and an AP is a safety requirement. GPS naturally, turbo or natural is fine. Ice is nice but not required. Anybody want to make a deal?

Tim

Ed Coffman · #2 06-24-21, 09:20 PM

I have a couple for sale. PICs and info on my website. https://www.wefly4u.com/forsale

Make me an offer.

Ed

n86121 · #3 06-26-21, 09:57 AM

Your description 'pumping oil and compression in the 50's" is highly suspect.

As 'pumping oil' makes no sense.

Nor do I believe all the compressions have all dropped so suddenly.

I think they see a doctor with a checkbook, frankly.

Ask the fellow for installed price of engines overhauled NOT by him, but by either a different well-known engine overhaul shop that just does engines, or TCM, limiting his margin on replacing two engines.

...Before taking you for a ride.

Again, highly suspicious.

Or get Mike Bush involved. You need someone riding shotgun.

JohnT · #4 06-26-21, 07:43 PM

I will be selling my 72/73 P337G this winter. AP, boots, dual WAAS, recently overhauled props, factory remans (will have about 900 hours on each by then). Please contact me by email for more info/details. Thanks. John

mshac · #5 07-10-21, 12:00 PM

Tim, are you not responding to your PMs?

Timcote1960 · #6 07-10-21, 05:02 PM

A few responses on this thread:

1. There's really no doubt that my front engine requires the big hit. Ive seen the borescope (oil pumped up past the ring) and poor compressions myself. My motors have been run hot and the front is high time. While the loving intent to protect a brother from nefarious mechanics (yes, there are some) is appreciated, that's not my read with this guy who comes well respected by the community in NH. Accusing a mechanic of selling an unnecessary engine is like accusing a man of rape---better have some solid evidence before making that call. Or to use the medical metaphor, mal occurrence is far more common than malpractice. I'm closest to the evidence and pretty confident replacement is the right call. Love you anyways Dave, and I know you're heart's on my side.

2. I have been looking at my PMs. It seems the sweet spot for acquiring a 337 that can reliably haul me back and forth DC to Boston is listed somewhere around $90K (there are 4 candidate machines in that ballpark). None of them is perfect; hopefully my own will be perfect by around October, November?. Meantime, the drive on 95 is brutal and commercial isn't an option with the dog. Redundancy offers transport reliability, with the trade-off of doubling the woes and complications of aircraft ownership. But we knew that already---we own twins.

3. Still a go for Fly-in Sept 17 weekend at KLCI in Laconia NH. Maybe I will have a flyable 337 myself even, maybe not. At 61 years old, I remain hopeful that before the clock runs out I will achieve this dream of one or two safe 337s I can depend on flying me around whenever I want if the weather and my own skills allow. Not there yet...

Respectfully submitted.

Tim Cote
N639GC
N?????

JeffAxel · #7 07-11-21, 09:02 PM

Tim,
polite suggestion, do what I did, sell the Skymaster and find an F model MU2. Way better plane, but more expensive to operate, not that much more, but more. You do get a lot for the money though, and it would be much more reliable than ANY pressurized piston twin, not to mention faster and more capable. The F model MU2 is the least expensive way to get into a turbine. If you are flying IFR year round in the northeastern US that says turbine equipment to me. I happen to know of one coming up for sale soon (not mine) that is a really nice plane (nicer than mine!). The ask will be $300K, but that is a good price for that plane. Just sayin....

mshac · #8 07-11-21, 09:19 PM

You can buy an older Cessna Citation jet for about the same money as a high-end P337 or Riley. Some people just don't want the extra complexity, operating costs, and higher insurance. Plus MU-2s have a bad reputation of eating pilots for lunch. You need to be on the top of your game to fly one. The Skymaster is sort of a La-z-boy in the sky, easy to fly. To each, their own, based on their skills, budget, and mission...

Timcote1960 · #9 07-11-21, 10:15 PM

Thanks for your good thoughts.

I agree that the MU2 seems to make sense, I'm just not sure I'm enough pilot. Abe Lincoln once said "Think you can or think you can't, either way you're right". I don't think I can.

Reality may have nothing to do with reputation, but the MU2 has perhaps the absolute worst reputation for killing folk. From what I hear, new training programs have made the statistics more in line with what should be expected. But remember, I'm 61 and pushed my first throttle to firewall at 54, have about 800hrs. Still a baby, but too old to grow up and be a Top Gun.

Frankly, I'd feel better able to get a type rating in a Mustang than handle the shifty ways an MU2 is renowned for, but that's a pretty long process, starting with SIC before PIC. I agree that the MU2 sounds affordable, and I started this message thinking, yeah, 3 bills for that kind of performance would be great. But it does scare me indeed.

I'm still on the double-337 road. Listing my 206 amphib C206 this week---awesome dream plane and yes, I've landed her at my lakehouse a few times. She's worth 3 and a half. But Lake Winnipasaukee is crowded with boats in the summer and it's way to draggy for the drive from DC. Oh, an no AP; two hours in IMC with no AP and I'm a limp dishrag. So I will turn that sweet waterbird into a lazyboy loungeomatic 337 (which it isn't, btw, it's a complex multiengine which has my deepest respects.
It's also the safest aircraft I know.).

I think humility is my protecting friend here. I can fly in 80-90% of the weather DC to NH can hurl at me. While those numbers won't work for an airline pilot, they work for me. I NEVER *have to* fly at a given time. Never.

mshac · #10 07-11-21, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timcote1960

So I will turn that sweet waterbird into a lazyboy loungeomatic 337

We have a winner for the new model name!!!

I understand the latest model has cupholders and massaging seats...

Seriously, the Skymaster is comfortable and confidence inspiring. May you find the perfect ship for your needs!

JeffAxel · #11 07-12-21, 01:24 AM

I agree with all that is said about the 337 and how easy it is, that why I bought one. Not sure I agree with the MU2 stuff. It is different and has to flown differently, but once you understand those differences and how to fly the plane the way it is supposed to be flown, you will be fine. What works in a 421 won't work in an MU2, but fly it the way you will be trained to fly it and it does exactly what the book says it will do. Training is mandatory and has to be done annually, but this requirement has taken the MU2 from a dangerous plane to a much safer one. The wing with no flaps is very different than with flaps 20 and the airspeeds change accordingly. This is a must learn lesson but when you fly the POH profiles, the plane does fine. You have to commit to learning something different but you don't have to be an extraordinary pilot to fly the MU2, but you do have to be a student of the type and appreciate its differences. You have to learn to use trim, but when in trim it isn't particularly hard to fly, once learned. Think jet like and you get the idea. It is head and shoulders more capable than any pressurized piston twin and much more reliable. It has much better engineered systems too. Downsides, insurance could be a challenge. Needs more runway than a P337 too. But at 260KTAS on 58gph in the 20s, the F model MU2 is the least expensive twin turboprop you can operate. I liked my P337, but the MU2 is in a whole different league capability wise. I am glad I went this route. It has been a challenge, but the rewards are well worth it to me.

Frank Benvin · #12 07-12-21, 10:47 AM

My good friends flight in a MU2 He was copilot They had a double engine failure at night in icing over the mountains fully loaded with freight.. Everything was on their side that night Two part video - communication between ATC and them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbm8xzLVgQ4&t=2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lAu-HpzqM4&t=6s

JeffAxel · #13 07-12-21, 01:31 PM

Awful lot of information in the MU2 POH about flying in icing. Engine inlet heat on (bleed air source), ignitors on continuous, prop heat on, boots on. Pitot heat should be turned on when taking the runway. If you do all that correctly and when entering icing conditions the experience your friend had should be rare. That said, ice can get any airplane. I would rather avoid ice entirely of course, but I would rather be in an MU2 than a P337 if flying in icing conditions. The icing testing the MU2 has undergone is more extensive than most any other turboprop. Tom Batchelor wrote an extensive article on that subject. He was the test pilot for those icing tests. Something every aspiring MU2 pilot should read. I can't seem to attach it here, but I can send it via e mail if someone wants to read it.

mshac · #14 07-12-21, 06:20 PM

Jeff, I admire the MU-2, and your devotion to training in order to fly one. I'd love to have the performance capabilities you have with your Marquis.

A couple of questions, if you would:

What does your required annual training look like?

What is your insurance cost, and at what hull value?

What do you budget for your annual or progressive mx program?

JeffAxel · #15 07-12-21, 06:35 PM

I don't have a Marquis, I have a 1972 F model, the "low performance" MU2, only 260KTAS vs 300KTS. Burns less fuel though. Training was $6K initial and will be $3K annually. Insurance was $9K for $250K hull value. They required 50 hours dual, and that was about right for me. The MU2 is my first turbine so there was a pretty big learning curve. I wanted twin safety, and a turbine actually gives you that. It will actually climb on one engine, properly flown. One thing to keep in mind, both the MU2 and P337 have lousy safety records, but the MU2's has improved due to the training requirement. Something to keep in mind no matter what you fly. My 100/200 hour inspection was $12K plus a $3K battery that was welded to the battery connector. That is in the range I spent on P337 annuals, and less than my first P337 annual FWIW.