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#1
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I'd also like to lean on fellow Skymaster owners for advice on basic upgrades. VFR pilot looking to finish off Instrument.
I don't anticipate flying in heavy soup with low ceilings. Really just to get out, maybe on top with relatively decent weather at destination..or just won't go. Plan to set pretty moderate personal minimums another words. 1973 "G" model, currently has: Stec 55x w CWS GNC300XL KN64DME KR87 ADF 2 MX-170B with KI209A Glideslopes KT76A transponder with Avionix Tail beacon Strikefinder Eaton Annunciation push switches to control what feeds autopilot, glideslopes, etc. I use Stratus 2 and Fore-flight Thinking for training (and usefulness) to add Waas/GPS capability. Am looking at adding one of following: Garmin GPS175 Garmin GNC355 Garmin GNX375 Probably a G5 HSI or AV30 Have thought about a used 430 or 530, but for what they cost along with installation thought it might be better to go with a unit mentioned above. Obviously can dump the GNC300 and tail beacon if need be and likely the ADF. All input appreciated  )
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#2
12-23-20, 01:28 PM
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Are you planning to keep the plane for 5 years or more? Just get the GTN-750 and be done with it. You will never be sorry that you did except the day you write the check, after that you will only have a smile on your face that you bought the box that does more tomorrow when you really need it. As we grow with our airplanes our experience level accelerates and we will wish we had paid all that installation money for more capability than we had originally thought we would need. You have a very capable airplane so why compromise the ability today when you will need that capability tomorrow. Yes the hardware will cost more but the installation cost won't change much. The GTN-750 is just the best box out there for our airplane and you will grow into this unit within a couple years and be able to say that you are so glad you bought more and not less.
Also the Avidyne boxes are awesome too and did not mean to not include them. Just saw that you were talking Garmin so ran with that. Bottom line, buy more than you need today as you will want it tomorrow
__________________
Herb R Harney 1968 337C Flying the same Skymaster for 47 years
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#3
12-23-20, 06:43 PM
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-J
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#4
12-24-20, 11:06 AM
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The last update of 4XXW SFMS, 190-00356-03 Rev. G, indicates that there are no autopilots authorized for LPV approaches (attached image). Not sure you could use the info posted for the 5XX SFMS if you didn't have one on board.
That said, Sandel had a software update that would allow my 3308 to do it. So, I purchased it, it wasn't cheap, and I had the avionics shop install it and do some hard-wire changes that it required. The update also provided the autopilot integration to fly it. As a note, Sandel might have bit the dust in '20. They were walloped by everything that happened this year to include the wildfires in CA. They no longer are answering their phones or emails. I bought the annual DB update for the 3308's memory; yeah, it has a Jepp DB of US fixes in it. The shop had a problem with the date range of the software, and it would not load. At least the annual update is cheap. Anyway, my 400A actually does a heck of a job flying an LPV approach. Spot on. My airplane was just up to APC for a problem, it was the attitude indicator, not the autopilot, and the test pilot let it fly the approaches to minimums as part of his profile. As a note, it is worth taking the airplane to APC in Tulsa. They ended up flying my airplane twice with their pilot and techs, and the tweaks were worth it. They have the equipment the I suspect no one else has. The airplane is flown through a test profile; in the Skymaster's case, there is a tech in the front with their pilot, and there is a tech in the back seat with the seat laid down, making adjustments to the box in the overhead. While they are doing this, there is a great place to eat 171' away; Evelyn's Soul Food. Jimmie Cricket! Tulsa is directly on our Victoria to St. Paul grandkid flight. Evelyn's will be a mandatory "fuel" stop north and southbound. Me personally, I don't have a problem letting it fly one. My 400A is always in top shape, I know how to monitor a system and an approach, and my 20K hour plus background is heavy with both IFR and LNAV operations. Of course, look at the Terrain Proximity notes on the same attachment. You're not supposed to use it either. Right, that's one of the reasons you bought it and maintain the updates. Garmin is covering the butt. The difference between the 400A and B is that the A uses chain/sprocket drives, and the B uses torque motors. The B flies the airplane with input pressure just like you would by hand. I'm not sure the C337 ever had any B installations. I briefly considered going to the glass, but that means an autopilot change as well. With the STEC 55 being the only option, it's not for me. I've flown a bunch of different airplanes professionally since I retired from the airlines. I see a lot of inop STECs. The three STEC installations I've been flying this year are all inop (all 55s). I've talked to three shops this year about going to the glass, which means that I leave the 400A. All three have told me to plan on doubling the autopilot's cost to cover the installation labor. That is not out of line with what I've experienced with other installations I've had done over the last two years. I keep a spare, rebuilt attitude indicator on the shelf; that's the real key to the 400A. APC has prepped it, but I will take the airplane up there to adjust if it is put in use. I've got a bunch of stuff to be done going into my annual in a couple of months, but I'm not going to go to glass in my airplane. Too much $$$ for an airframe that is working towards 50 years old, that's me. If everything craps out, or I feel the need for glass, I'm going to buy a used late-model Seneca V with all the bells and whistles; FIKI, radar, and airconditioned and be done with it. What's weird is that in the late '70s, I flew a 337G, P337G, and a PA34-200T Seneca II professional during the same time period. The 337G was flown on a pipeline patrol from the TX/Mexico border into AL weekly. The P337G was flown in TX and Mexico, and the PA34 in TX, NM, CO, and Mexico. I liked all three. I guess I'm back to my roots. Last edited by patrolpilot : 12-24-20 at 11:17 AM.
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#5
12-25-20, 12:14 PM
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I always thought those Garmin AFMS entries were "checkboxes" and the installer goes through the generic AFMS and tailors it to your installation be checking the various limitation boxes. No checkmark in the box means the limitation didn't apply to your installation. I'll read up more on it.
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#6
12-25-20, 04:55 PM
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What was required to enable the auto flight VNav, in respect to my two 430W, the Sandel 3308, and the 400A; was the last software upgrade on the 3308 to V2.3 ($1700)*, a 400hz inverter, and a King/Bendix autopilot adapter (which required a modification), and some additional hardwiring from the 430Ws to the 3308. Sandel provided the wire diagrams (shop kept them). My shop could not find the specific A/P adapter as they are out of production but knows the guy at Sandel, and he sent one to the shop without charge. Anyway, after a couple of weeks, my shop only works half a day, it was done. We went and flew the approaches, and the shop owner said, you are good to go. Selections between the two 430Ws and VHF Navs are through the selector on the 3308. The APC pilot was very complimentary of my shop's integration; he said it was perfect. *This is where I first considered the G5s as what started this was that my attitude indicator had failed, and it was good timing to take care of the VNav stuff. I learned that the G5 causes the 400A to away. With a nice flying 400A, that would be a lot of money spent to get back to the same capability. I bought a replacement attitude indicator and had the failed indicator repaired for $1150 altogether and keep the spare on the shelf. After the coming annual, I will find a spare 3308; they have gotten cheap and keep it on the shelf as well. That should last me another decade. I've also not seen any other 3308s updated to 2.3. Last edited by patrolpilot : 12-25-20 at 04:57 PM.
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#7
12-25-20, 07:17 PM
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#8
02-04-21, 01:19 PM
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The Garmin G5 is certified for the Skymaster, and most light twins. Not that I'm a Garmin fanboy by any means, but Garmin wins this one (as far as twins go!).
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#9
02-04-21, 01:28 PM
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#10
02-04-21, 10:12 PM
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I have a Uavionics AV-30 and a couple years ago asked them to include Skymaster on their AML list when they went for their certification. I got an email from them advising skymaster was approved before I took delivery of my certified AV-30 and have spoken with them throughout certification process.
However, in terms of driving legacy autopilots discussed on this thread, it is of no help.
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#11
02-04-21, 10:20 PM
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Last edited by mshac : 02-04-21 at 10:31 PM.
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#12
02-04-21, 10:32 PM
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#13
02-04-21, 10:45 PM
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I understand the comments and appreciate them.
I had noted their AML list did not include 337 when I checked their website few weeks ago and have been meaning to call them to see what's up. But the e-mail saying "Cessna 337 has been added to the AML list" exists. I just pulled it up again to check my memory. So I will call to clarify. Avionics installer was also comfortable with it when we ordered unit and conferred with them. However, with caution I have retained my OEM AI...plus it drives my legacy autopilot. I believe my personal next step beyond the legacy stuff I have would be an Aspen and STEC autopilot. Last edited by wslade2 : 02-04-21 at 11:00 PM.
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