337 ownership

sonyalex · #1 09-09-12, 05:10 PM

Hello Everyone,

My name is Alex and I have a question for you owners of the 337.

I currently own a 2007 Cirrus SR20gts I have 280 hrs and will have my certificate 2yrs in January 2013. I will hopefully start my IFR training in the next 3 months.

I really love the 337 because of my mission. I have been twin crazy for a while and my wife and I have a place in AZ. I live in a suburb nw of Chicago and based at KPWK.

I feel the 337 has all the pieces I’m looking for I don’t need to tell you folks what they are because you know.

Thing is this everybody I talk to about this plane tells me I must be crazy to even think of owning one because it’s plagued by maintenance problems beyond belief. (you should see what I had to deal with in the Cirrus)

The reason why I’m thinking of one again is because I met a mechanic that absolutely loves them and the 3 or 4 he maintains are in great condition he said. Once you have the bird up to snuff he said it’s no different from anything else he said. With good maintenance you will be fine. Of course I told this to a friend and he said yeah he can’t wait to charge you to fix it. WHATEVER….

My instructor who has over 7k hours and all kinds of ratings didn’t have a bad thing to say about it in fact he loves the plane and has 250 hrs in one.

So my questions
What are peoples experiences with the plane as far as maintenance?
Maybe your experience after you bought your plane and then once it was where your wanted it what was your experience then?
I like pressurization so what extra maint. am I looking at there.
Turbo would be a plus especially because my plan is to fly west for the winters.
If there is anything else you would like to add that would be great.

Thank you all in advance,
Alex Kottoulas

Ernie Martin · #2 09-09-12, 06:32 PM

Heed the advice of the mechanic and the instructor. If you haven't done it already, go to the second thread on this Message Board, click on the first message, and read the paragraph which starts "If you are considering buying a Skymaster....". That paragraph has a link to a page that addresses exactly your questions and then a summary of what's in the link. Incidentally, I'm an aerospace/mechanical engineer (MS, Caltech) on my second Skymaster.

A more current discussion on maintenance costs may be found at http://www.337skymaster.com/messages...?t=2703&page=2. This thread is on Skymaster Valuation, but on this second page the discussion meandered into operating and maintenance costs, and members gave the actual costs they have been incurring. The discussion on these costs starts with the third message on that page (edasmus' actual operating costs) and ends with Paul Sharp's message further down that same page. Two things are worth noting. First, there is a wide range of costs, with some members citing Annuals (including parts) costing $25,000 while others pay around $2,000. Second, there is a link on one of the messages to a separate page where members were asked by the then Administrator to share the costs of their Annuals. I caution you to read this material carefully, because some costs include engine/prop reserves while others don't, and "operating costs" may include fuel, hangar, insurance, etc.

Ernie Martin

sonyalex · #3 09-09-12, 08:09 PM

Thanks Ernie just the kind of information I was looking for.

edasmus · #4 09-10-12, 08:41 AM

Hi Alex,

I have been operating my Skymaster for 10 years and 700 hours out of Aurora, IL (ARR). I would be happy to sit down with you and share all my maintenance experiences with the airplane. I will show you actual numbers on the actual invoices. Almost all of my maintenance service has been handled by Lumanair, Inc based at Aurora.

I believe ALL airplanes are expensive to operate. I do not believe the Skymaster is any different to operate then any other comparable 40 year old twin. My experience has been that people who make the types of negative comments about the Skymaster that you reference, do not speak from personal experience.

Good Luck,

Ed

sonyalex · #5 09-10-12, 06:18 PM

Ed, that would be great to get together to go over the cost. Just let me know how you would like me to contact you and we can meet in the near future.

Thanks,
Alex

edasmus · #6 09-10-12, 10:57 PM

Alex,

My email is edasmus3@aol.com.

Ed

brian · #7 09-15-12, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonyalex

The reason why I’m thinking of one again is because I met a mechanic that absolutely loves them and the 3 or 4 he maintains are in great condition he said. Once you have the bird up to snuff he said it’s no different from anything else he said. With good maintenance you will be fine.

Alex, after 6 yrs of 337 ownership I agree with your mechanic. My 337 is the first plane I ever owned, prior to that I did clubs and rentals. My instructor with 30000 hrs in everything thought I was nuts because he had heard all the 337 "stories" regarding maintenance. But after flying mine he really likes it.

It is a complex twin and maintenance will be as costly as most other complex twins. The only thing that was more difficult or costly on mine compared to other twins thus far was replacing the rear mags which was difficult due to lack of firewall clearance (there is a firewall maintenance door mod for that.) My annuals have been in the $3500 range, except the last two have been high due to a prop overhaul at each one.

Took a trip last weekend to Yellowstone, got about 10 mpg LOP, (135-140 KTAS, 13-14 gph), and all the time flying over the moutains was glad to have the peace of mind of the extra engine as compared to a 182 or 172 etc. Also, I appreciate having 420 hp performance when needed. Mine has STOL and routinely take off and land in 1200 feet.

Find a good 337 with good maintenance history and with a mechanic who is familiar them you will be fine.

Brian

sonyalex · #8 09-15-12, 09:53 AM

That's good to here Brian.

My wife has informed me once again that she never wants to goto a commercial airport again so I better figure this out, and that's the reason why I'm here. ur comments r a big help 2 me.

Ty,
Alex

Ernie Martin · #9 09-15-12, 12:57 PM

I'm a strong supporter of Skymasters, Alex, and also of LOP operation under the right circumstances, but I wanted to caution you that those circumstances don't apply to all, and Brian's mpg may not be achievable by you. I won't bore you here with details, but there is a lengthy discussion on LOP in this Message Board that you can find using the Search feature. Still, even in ROP operation with 20gph consumption (which is what I do), you're doing 8 mpg, and it's FUN! Can't say that for a long car trip or for flying commercial and dealing with TSA.

Ernie

loy53 · #10 10-13-12, 03:27 PM

Alex,

I may be selling my 337 in the future.
65 model
2500TT
120 smoh on both engines
430 garmin with wass
king md 150
stec 50 ap with gpps
nice p & i
stol kit
I live about 90 mi. south of Chicago
let me know if you would like to talk about it or look at it some time?

Howard

sonyalex · #11 10-13-12, 08:14 PM

Yes Howard i would like 2 talk 2 u about it. i'm in the future as well i'm going 2 try 2 sell my share in the sr20 soon & don't know how long that would take or if my partners would buy me out. will c. l'd like 2 c photo's of ur aircraft if u can email me at akottoulas@comcast.net

Mark Hislop · #12 10-15-12, 05:48 PM

Hi Alex.

I've been away for a while, and I just saw your posting.

Like Ed, I am based at the Aurora airport. I have a P Skymaster, and I do most of the work on it myself (under supervision of my IA). If you ever have any questions about the pressurized models, I would be happy to talk to you about it. 630-926-5804

I'm probably too far away from your home to make this a vialble idea, but we lost one of our partners last April. He perished in plane crash. We are trying to sell his share in our plane and hangar on behalf of his widow. If you have any interest in it, please let me know. But as I said, we're probably too far away to make it practical for you.

Mark

sonyalex · #13 10-15-12, 06:51 PM

Thxs Mark I will contact u this week.

Ur right ARR would b 2 far 4 me but would love to talk about the plane. I know Ed is out by u as well and would like to come out there one day to c the planes.

Alex

Jim Smith · #14 10-15-12, 08:27 PM

Alex, I own two Skymasters, a '69 turbo D model and a '71 normal F model. The D came with one new engine and 2600 hrs TTAF and the F came with one new engine and only 1270 total hrs. TTAF. The D was a one owner, always hangered Arizona plane with beautiful paint and interior and the F could use a paint job but came with a full IFR GPS panel and beautiful interior. Both planes were out of annual when I bought them. I got great deals on both planes leaving plenty of money left for annuals, repairs and upgrades to make them both mechanically and cosmetically tip top. The Skymaster is typically a 'love it or hate it' airplane, which narrows the market and demand. Those of use who know and love what a fantastic plane this is enjoy our 'secret', while the 'haters' pretty much just base their opinion on a falsely given reputation. I've never met anyone who actually owned a 337 that hated it. Like any plane, if you neglect them you will eventually pay one way or they other. My point is, there are some great deals on Skymasters right now that would leave plenty of money left over to make sure it's tip top and still have way less invested than you would have in a conventional twin. Me owning two of them is a testament to my experiences and what I think of this plane. My best advice is to find a mechanic that will work 'on the side' for way less than a shop would charge and also let you assist in repairs or annuals if you desire. Good luck with your search for a great plane. Jim

sonyalex · #15 10-15-12, 10:07 PM

thxs 4 ur thoughts Jim, it is great 2 here the experiences that all u folks have w/ur 337's & there r alot of "haters" out there as u say, guys that really do a good job of scaring the hell out of u. none of them own a 337 either of course.

Alex