$700 from Nashville

Folks:

I still have the $700.00 from Nashville, and I was going to set up an LLC and a bank account for the funds. However, my associate, much smarter than myself, stated that if we set up an LLC, we'll have to have "members" to the LLC (presumably the 14 folks that donated the $50 each to assist in putting annual meetings together). Then, those members will have to receive K1s each year for tax purposes. So, maybe a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation really is the way to go. My problem with that arrangement is that we will still have to file tax returns and incur accounting fees unless there is an accountant in the group that is willing to donate his time to do so.

I don't have a problem with donating my time to set up the non-profit corp, LLC, or whatever we decide to do, but it's really a decision that should be made by the group, and not just me. If you all agree to let me make the decision, I'll be happy to do it and probably set up the non-profit group and see if we can get a cheap accountant to file the form annually. But I'm not an accountant and can't file the forms. We will then have to elect a board and some officers, again for tax and check signing purposes. I'll be happy to take care of all of that, including by-laws, notices, etc. I just need some direction.

Further, the original purpose of the money, if I recall correctly, was to assist in the costs of the annual meeting, give some money to Kevin for the Board, and repay Larry for the projector and AV aids he rented for the Nashville meeting. Let me know what you want done with the money and I'll be happy to do it.

$500 is in cash, and the other $200 results from 4 checks for $50 each. The checks have not been cashed, and may be stale, thus, I would need to send them back to the folks who wrote them, and have them send me another newer check. The four who wrote checks are:

Guy Paris
Paul Rooy/Royal Aviation, Inc.
Brian Von Herzen / Rapid Prototypes, Inc.
Larry Bowdish

Let me know and I'll proceed accordingly.

Thanks,

Keven
________
EmoBabes

[kevin]

For those of us who were not at the meeting, can someone explain what the goals and benefits of setting up such an organization were envisioned to be?

Thanks in advance,

Kevin

[WebMaster]

Larry has repeatedly said, and will continue to say, no thanks. The AV stuff is paid for, it was an expense that could have been avoided if we had had good coordination, it's something that I anticipated donating, don't need it don't want it, and if elected I'll refuse to run, or some thing like that.

That's the end of that discussion, i hope, and if you still have one of my checks, I hope you cash it soon.

[stackj]

After 5 months, I'm not sure that it's worth the trouble to do the LLC. I owned an airplane under the corporate scheme some years back and, I can tell you, the tax BS is not worth it.

Even a 501C3 organization has to submit tax paperwork to continually prove it meets 501C3 requirements. This was a pain when I was a Civil Air Patrol squadron commander.

I suggest we turn the money over to the web site, get on with the mailing and anything left over can be used to support server rental.

As for trying to support the meetings, I think the suggestion that was made relating to a fee for attending the meetings was a good one. Put your money up when you commit to attend. That should cover expenses such as meeting room - projector rental, etc.

I'm open to other suggestions, but if you decide to take action in this direction, you have my support (and contribution).

Kevin:

You folks who were present need to pitch in and help me on this one, but as I recall, the purpose of setting up an entity was (in no particular order):

1. To have a reserve of money to pay for advance expenses for the person(s) setting up the annual meeting. I believe Jerry said that most hotels or places willing or able to host an event wanted some deposit money up front.

2. To pay Kevin for all of his efforts in this truly awesome website.

3. To pay for speakers or at least their transportation to the meeting so that we can continue to attract good speakers.

4. To have money to get the word out about the meetings and encourage participation on this board.

5. Yes . . . to pay Larry for the rented AV equipment. And I know Larry, you're not going to take the $300, but you at least get this final honorable mention for the effort and out of pocket donation you gave for everyone's benefit who attended.

6. To have an excuse to meet annually for an entity's annual meeting and possibly write it off.

I know I'm missing a few other things we talked about, but these are the things we discussed that immediately come to mind.

Anyone else remember additional items?

Keven
________
vapir oxygen vaporizer

[SkyKing]

You're ALL getting way in over your heads. Have ANY of you EVER read Title 26, United States Code, i.e., the IRS maize? You don't have a clue as to what you're proposing. Drop it. Don't wreit checks. Donate to whatever thingee you want to do with cash, or send a postal money order... and be done with it. A 501(c)(3) IRS tax-exempt 'organization' is the VERY REASON why your local 'church' has gone to Hell in a hand basket... and has become an organization to preach the official government-state little 'god' lies and propaganda, instead of the Gospel of the True King, King Jesus.

Now, let there not be any flame concerning this might be 'off-topic', as I wasn't the one who even raised the issue of the IRS and their gestapo 501(c)(3) PEOPLE CONTROL mechanism.

SkyKing

I think I have figured out what SkyKing's vote and suggestion is, what about everyone else?

What say the rest of you? Especially the folks who ponied up the money.

Shall I forward the funds to Kevin for the Board, wait to see who is going to put together the next annual meeting (which should begin relatively soon) and send the money to them, form an anti-christ 501(c)(3), or a little of all of the above?

Or . . . something else.

Keven
________
WASHINGTON MEDICAL MARIJUANA

[Mark Hislop]

Keven:

Our local EAA chapter has been working on getting our 501(c)3 for over two years now. This work has been done with two or three very dedicated volunteers, a lawyer who has donated his time, and an accountant who has donated his time. we have had to document every Young Eagles flight, every scholarship we've set up, every Wings program we've put on, etc. For what we want to do here, which is exchange Skymaster/O2 information, nd maybe get together occasionally, I'm not even sure a 501(c)3 would be approved. Based on our experience, I would not even consider that route.

Mark

[Don Hickman]

I wasn't able to make the Nashville meeting so it is with some hesitation that I offer the following thoughts.

According to the home page, Kevin says he has received $335 toward the $600 goal. Keven writes that he has $700 from the Nashville meeting. So, as a group, we have a $1,035, more than enough for the mailing. I suggest that Keven and Kevin get together and make the mailing happen.

Secondly, as regards the type of organization, if any, that we should have, I would suggest an ordinary C corp. Keven could set it up in NC or someone else could do so elsewhere. Everyone who donated or donates would receive a few shares in the corp, say one share for each $10 or whatever. Once each year we have a "shareholders" meeting which coincides with our desired annual fly-in. As for accounting, all we have to do is make sure that our expenses equal our income and while a return has to be prepared and filed, there's no tax. That avoids Skyking's point about all the hassle with a 501(c)(3). And we shouldn't have any difficulty avoiding a profit!

There are some drawbacks, primarily for whoever undertakes to set up the corp and maintain the books. That will require the donation of some time and effort and there's no effective way to share this burden among a group of us.

Or, we could just forget about the formalities, have Keven send the $700 to Kevin and then Kevin can just pay for the mailing. No hassle, no books. Of course, Kevin can then explain that mysterious $1,035 to the IRS when he gets audited.

[SkyKing]

Don,

A 'corporation' is a CREATURE of the STATE, and must conform to statute after statute. Why would ANYBODY, and most of all a group of airplane affecionados, WANT a corporation ... unless of course, you prefer a constant NOOSE around your neck! NO THANK YOU. It's just another hassle. Folks always think there is some benefit to incorporating their 'private' business... when the truth of the matter is that you are just opening a can of worms and mold spores to gain ground on the host.

Just what is it you're trying to accomplish? Are you trying to create another 'AOPA'? We don't need it! Why not leave things as they are, and if you people want to donate to Kevin, or whomever else, to keep the website alive or promote mailings or meetings, etc., then do so and leave all this corporate, 501(c)(3) and other little state 'god' greed lay sleeping.

I get a kick out of reading aircraft registration info on the FAA database... especially the ones with 'LLC' after their name, as if they're somehow protecting their posterior. Look, if someone has an injury or tort against you, they're gonna sue anyway - no matter what character you happen to be.

SkyKing

[FRED-E]

I agree with SkyKing, leave things as they are, if we can't raise enough money to do the mailing then maybe it is not worth while.
We do have a number of members and if they don't get $ 10 worth of use out of this site then so-be-it.
My $ .02 worth
Fred

[Ernie Martin]

I didn't go to the Nashville meeting, nor did I contribute any of the money, so, like Don Hickman, it is with some trepidation that I stick my nose where it probably doesn't belong.

I never thought I would share the same ideas as SkyKing (please, SkyKing, don't take offense, it's just that many of your prior non-Skymaster postings run counter to my views), but I think he's right on the mark here. The amount of money is so small, its future use so benign and this discussion so open that there's no chance it will draw IRS interest. Oh, and I forgot to add "and the listing/reporting requirements so burdensome...".

There are some coffee clubs with more money than this. I vote for Keven to cash the checks and hold the money in one of his accounts, this on-going discussion to decide what to do, and for Keven to disburse the funds accordingly.

BTW, I'm posting a message immediately after this one supporting the idea to start organizing the next Skymaster meeting. I figure Kevin may separate it from this thread so we can have a separate forum on that subject.

Ernie

[Frank Benvin]

Simple Solution

Contact each person and ask them what they want done with their donation

Frank

Frank:

Brilliant thought, or so I would like to think since I had it also. I was hoping that the existing fund of money would increase this Board's membership's desire to keep the fund alive, grow it, and do something with it to perpetuate the annual meetings, help with this site, etc. If not, I'll resort to contacting each donor to see what they want done with the $50.00.

I was hoping this board would eliminate that for me. But hey, if I don't start to hear from the other 13 of you on this Board, I'll be in touch via email so you can keep your preferences private. Or . . . feel free to email me at kkenison@conlaw.com with your preference.

501(c)(3)s are a hassle as I and others have mentioned. I currently represent one such entity and have for a few years now, and it's not quite as onerous as you would think, but it is still a hassle and you need an accountant. I am still willing to do it, but with the response so far, I dare say it's worth the time and energy to do it.

I also agree with Ernie that it is time to start planning for the annual meeting. I don't know if this idea was kicked around or not, but what about 2 annual meetings, one out west and one out east, so that we don't have the same problems of location selection every year? If it's east, I'll be more than happy to take the lead, or help. Jerry, truly did a bang up job last year; especially for not having any funds to work with. And if we do send out mailers, we may easily have enough people for 2 separate meetings, one east and one west.

Thoughts?

Keven
________
Expert insurance

[WebMaster]

1. a corp would give us some viability, as opposed to a bunch of folks all sharing a message board. When we talk to people about being guest speakers, we can say we are with the skymaster organization, as opposed to saying there is a bunch of folks who all share a message board.

2. Next meeting should be planning now.

3. Next meeting needs to charge, well in advance, for attendance. Get commitments, time, so we can work on guest speakers. In fact, I suggest we ask for commitments, and then figure out where to go.

4. Suggestions have been made for Memphis, TN and Charleston, SC.

5. East Coast, West Coast, the last 2 gatherings have all been organized by folks who live east coast. There was talk of a west coast, LasVegas, but no one picked up the ball and ran with it. Jerry did this year for Nashville, Bob Cook, and Ernie did the same for the preceding year. Distance is important, but I recall Brian flying from Nevada.

6. If it is done in conjunction with another event, it tends to be well diluted, witness the efforts last 2 years for OSH. To get folks in a place to talk about our aircraft, when there are lots of things going on, I would think dilutes the effectiveness.

7. Plan it 2 weeks after sun and fun, or early May.

8. The most important thing, regardless of where it is, is to contact every registered skymaster owner, well in advance, and invite them. Guy is correct, without the mailing that was done for Bahamas, many of the people who showed up, wouldn't have made it, and wouldn't know about this message board.

Even if they don't attend, they will be able to participate, and plan for the next big event. Perhaps at that point, we can do an east coast and a west coast event. Some folks are just not real computer literate, or do not have good web access, or just don't take the time. I recall the dentist from GA?? who had the purple skymaster in the bahamas, who's only computer was at work, and had a 56K modem.

So, location, mailing, contributions, because it isn't cheap, not necessarily in that order. Keven, cash the check, please.