Fly-In to Mexico for Skymaster Owners and Pilots

Rick Gardner · #1 08-30-07, 08:51 AM

Hello everyone, we are based in Cancun, Mexico and organize guided FLY-IN's and self-fly vacation for pilots wanting to explore Mexico with their aircraft. We also have the honor of owning a Skymaster.

It would be a great pleasure for us to organize a FLY-IN for Skymaster owner/members to Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula. We typically depart from either Brownsville, TX or Key West, FL but for a custom trip we can depart from wherever is convenient for the group.

Being from the Bahamas, I have seen members down that way before and thought you might want to try a new destination. There are miles of beautiful beaches, archeology and colonial cities as well as the opportunity to swim with whale sharks in the summer. Is there someone who organizes the club trips that I could call to see if there is any interest?

Ernie Martin · #2 08-30-07, 11:46 AM

No one formally organizes the flight portion of the fly-ins. Volunteer members handle things like the meeting room, and, when possible, group rates for the hotels, but the flights are done individually. I have been one of the organizers on three of the fly-ins, including the first one in Treasure Cay, Bahamas, and the last one in the Lucaya Resort, Grand Bahama Island. You can go see the web page www.337skymaster.org/2007flyin.htm announcing the last meeting to get an idea of the planning.

Please note that there is a link to web page www.consultresearch.com/337flite.htm with flight procedures for the international portion of the trip. But that's all we do in terms of organizing the flights, and all of this is done at no charge. Attendees only pay a set amount which the organizers establish to defray the costs of the meeting rooms and cleanup, meeting room coffee and tea, presentation equipment rental, and included social activities (typically a reception cocktail and a sunset cruise).

I share all this with you because it would be interesting to consider the next meeting in Mexico. We would have to raise it to the membership at large, to make sure that there is enough interest. In that regard, I have two concerns: the longer trip over water and the additional cost of insurance to fly to Mexico.

While we have had good attendance at both Bahamian fly-ins, you would be surprised at the relatively large number of people who declined to go because of the over-water hop -- even though it was only 50 miles and in a twin. On each fly-in I talked to several owners who read my ditching page at www.consultresearch.com/337ditch.htm (which makes the case that it's just as safe as over land), called me for additional information (and hand-holding), and still declined. The much longer trip to Mexico may be an even tougher sell.

Anyhow, I hope this helps.

Ernie

Rick Gardner · #3 08-30-07, 12:01 PM

Insurance in Mexico is a topic that keeps coming up that I would like to clarify. Mexico only requires 3 things:

1) That your insurance coverage has at least US$ 250,000 of liability coverage.
2) That the policy clearly states that you are covered within the country of Mexico
3) That you bring a photocopy of the pages that show the above two points.

This has been in effect for several years now. Unfortunately, many pilots are not aware of this.

We have organized trips departing from Brownsville, Texas for groups that are concerned about the over-water issue. I don't know if this would be feasible for the group.

If there is interest, we would be happy to put it together and provide all of the logistics and handle all of the documents and entry permits. There are a number of destinations that would make great destinations including scuba diving, fishing, archeology and colonial cities. How do we raise it to the membership at large?

Ernie Martin · #4 08-30-07, 01:00 PM

Typically at the end of this year or at the beginning of next year we put out a call for inputs from the members on where and when they would like to have the next fly-in. We generally do it in May but the location has included Key West, Oklahoma City and Las Vegas.

By starting this message thread, we are already addressing the issue of where, since I expect and hope that members will jump in and share their views. It would be useful if you would give us some additional information. Here are some topics I would like to see addressed:

1. Would there be a charge by you or www.caribbeanskytours.com for putting it together, providing all of the logistics and handling all of the documents and entry permits?

2. What are the government fees for such documents and entry permits? Any other fees?

3. What city/airport is the suggested destination (Cancun?) and what are the typical flight distances from Brownsville, TX or Key West, FL?

4. For those uninsured or where the insurance doesn't have the requisite coverage, do you have an idea of the cost of getting insurance or adding the requisite coverage?

5. Around May, what is the range of hotel costs?

6. What is the cost of fuel in Mexico?

There may be other questions, but the intent here is to provide the members a fairly clear view of the flight involved and the costs beyond those of the meeting itself (meeting rooms and cleanup, meeting room coffee and sodas, presentation equipment rental, etc.).

Thanks,
Ernie

Rick Gardner · #5 08-30-07, 02:44 PM

Hi Ernie. Let me try and answer your questions.

1) We normally do fully escorted FLY-IN's where we travel through the Yucatan on different types of adventures. For a convention like the SOAP FLY-IN, we could offer several different types of service. We could assist in making local arrangements in Cancun or Campeche or whatever destination the members desire. We also offer a Vacation Planning service where we develop custom travel plans for each customer including recommended lodging with special rates, all charts and guides necessary, arrange ground transportation and provide pre-flight consultation to orient the pilot on Mexican procedures and important items like documents, getting fuel, filing flight plans and special use airspace. This could be of benefit to participants to help guide them through the process of getting into Mexico and to Cancun. We would guide them to GA friendly airports where we have good contacts and alert the airports of their planned arrival. If the group wishes, we could arrange for either self-fly or guided day trips to local destinations like Chichen Itza, Isla Mujeres, Cozumel or any of the amazing destinations on the peninsula.

Any fee that we may need to charge would depend on what would be required from us.

2) The fees vary by airport but typically for a skymaster the approximate fees would be:

Entry permit for the aircraft: $ 50 USD (We would arrange for multiple entry permits which are valid for the calendar year)
Immigration fee: $ 25 USD per person
Landing fee: $ 10-15 USD
Ramp fee: $ 10-15 USD per night.

3) Cancun is one possible destination for the group and there are many hotels we could recommend for this event. However, there are other interesting possibilities that we could recommend that are further into the peninsula. From Key West, FL it is approximately 360 NM to Cancun. We could orient pilots on how to make this trip while staying as close to land as possible (Cuba) without entering territorial waters. There is no Cuban overflight required for this trip. The distance from Brownsville, TX to Cancun is approximately 1,050 NM.

4) For those that do not meet the insurance requirement, you can obtain the Mexican liability insurance for around $ 150-200 USD. We can help members obtain this insurance.

5) During the month of May hotels in Cancun range from $ 150-250 USD for a good 4-5 star hotel. We can help get good rates.

6) The cost of 100LL in Mexico is around $ 3.60 per gallon with all taxes paid. I sure do appreciate those 150 gallon tanks in our Skymaster!

We are based in Cancun and are members of the Mexican General Aviation council and regularly travel throughout this region. It would be a great pleasure for us to help host this event in Mexico and meet fellow Skymaster pilots and share all of what the Yucatan has to offer, from a native's perspective. Please let me know if there are any other questions or concerns that we can address.

Ernie Martin · #6 08-30-07, 04:09 PM

OK, fellow SOAPers, what do you think?

Ernie

WebMaster · #7 08-30-07, 07:27 PM

I think we had an exotic locale, this year, and next year should be a more domestic locale.

Skymaster337B · #8 08-30-07, 10:00 PM

Anyone flying into Mexico is crazy. (Comments removed by moderator. Sorry, I thought long and hard about it, but I believe that it is appropriate to remove this comment.)

May I recommend the Roswell airshow as the next Skymaster fly in. It is at the same time as the Roswell UFO rally. Plenty of famous people, big parties, and lots of flying thing...maybe more.

hharney · #9 08-31-07, 04:45 PM

Location, Location, Location.......................after attending just 2 of these meetings, Las Vegas and Bahamas 07, but being involved in most all of the plans of the other meetings, I really am surprised we don't generate more interest. I don't believe it is a location that brings the group to the event. I believe we need to have easy access (not Mexico), good content and something that is meaningful to Skymaster owners (not just videos). Not sure if it should be in conjunction with an event. I think this might take away from our meeting. Timing is something that may help. We have had requests from some that say after school is over. Make it easy to get to, make available commercial flights for those who do not want to deal with weather, water, and fuel prices. No matter where it is, the same group will attend, the goal should be to attact those who have not participated yet.

I think flying across the water is intimidating to many. I think trying to plan the weather across the nation is also a hurdle. I say fly commercial. Everyone needs to know that bringing your own bird is not the purpose. In fact for the last two that I attended this was the least interest for me. Make it easy for folks to come. Get them to commit based on solid plans that can be made in advance and nothing gets in the way.

This should open up a lot of places and it makes the most sense to go to a location that is centerally located for those who fly their own and a place that has good service for several airlines. Make it easy to buy the tickets, hotel and no excuse for not coming. No matter what happens, what location we choose, some will come and we will have a great meeting. Be content with what we get. I'll be there.

Skymaster337B · #10 09-02-07, 05:58 PM

Central location makes alot of sense. May I suggest the Kansas location -- a Skymaster home coming.

SteveG · #11 09-02-07, 06:05 PM

I believe Rick often makes presentations at SnF & Oshkosh on the joys of flying into Mexico and S. America. Maybe a more feasible approach would be for Rick to attend the next meeting as a presenter. It could be an interesting program, get some members thinking about such a trip, promote Rick's tour business and give him an excuse to fire up the Skymaster. Sounds like a win-win to me. As to actually having the meeting in Mexico, as appealing as it sounds, if the purpose of SOAPA and the meetings is to promote interpersonal relationships and desseminate type specific information to as many owner operators as possible, I suspect a Mexican location would be poorly attended. The stateside and just offshore locations are not exactly sold out performances. Personally, I would hate to spend the time and dollars to make a trip to the Yucatan then spend much of the time there indoors listening to hangar chatter. My preference would be to have a centrally located meeting requiring minimal expense with modest outside entertainment. Enough to make the trip fun but not so much as to make me wish I was there with someone else or for some other purpose. I recently returned from CPA's S&P course in Tennessee which was well done for its purpose. Days filled with classroom and hangar work, evenings free for socializing. Calandar timing is also an issue for me. May would be ok for an east-central location but I generally travel to the Bahamas in March and SnF in April making another deep south trip in early May difficult to schedule. An all Skymaster group tour to Mexico arranged by Mr. Gardner sounds like a great idea for a fun week but a poor idea as a meeting venue. I hope he will consider making its case at the next meeting.

WebMaster · #12 09-02-07, 07:20 PM

Good points, all. Especially Steve G. I think a trip to Mexico would be fun as a vacation, but I would hate to spend my days in a classroom, while there.
We have over the last several years held it in May. We had a request last year to hold it in June, because then the kids are out of school.

What do folks think of having it the second week of June?

Ernie Martin · #13 09-03-07, 11:19 AM

I don't disagree with SteveG's point above that a Mexican location would be poorly attended compared to a more central U.S. location. The group picture of the 2004 meeting in Oklahoma City, shown below, supports that point. But I'm also including it because it refutes his suggestion that even the stateside meetings have had less than stellar attendance. The Key West meeting also had strong attendance (partial view shown below), with four parties coming from as far away as California and Montana. And the attendance at this year's overseas meeting was also good; a group picture, with three parties missing, may be seen at http://www.337skymaster.org/messages...&threadid=1949

Ernie

Pete Somers · #14 09-03-07, 11:53 AM

Why not Wichita, Kansas the place were the Skymaster was made. Just a suggestion.

Pete

SteveG · #15 09-04-07, 07:46 PM

I do not wish to appear argumentative Ernie but my words were not "poor attendence" nor was my intent. In fact, participation by 30 to 50 people is probably an ideal size. Large enough to have extensive and diverse experience among the group, large enough that hotels or resorts will pay attention but small enough to be manageable for accommodations, meals, transportation, etc. being arranged by a volunteer committee. However, with the current U.S. fleet of 337's numbering 1245 less, say 245 aircraft being operated by Airscan and its ilk, police, fire, fish & game, fishing and sightseeing leaves approximately 1000 acft. being owner flown for business & pleasure. Of that 1000, say 500 would have a spouse or significant other that might accompany them if the program warrented plus, say 20 vendors who market predominantly to Skymaster owners, 50 persons actively considering transitioning to a 337 along with maybe 30 other acft. scattered thru Canada, Mexico and the Carribean means that there are approximately 1600 potential attendees. Drawing 30 to 50 people to a meeting represents something less than 3 percent of the target audience.