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#1
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The following is a cut and paste from a thread on this site 1/3/16. This covers operating costs. This data is my personal experience since 2002 of 1973 C337G ownership. I do not have my 2016 numbers handy but it was an average/typical year. I did not have an annual in 2017 and the airplane is currently in the shop waiting for a part and then this annual inspection can be completed. It also is likely average. By that $8000ish would be my guess at this point.
My airplane only has 5 seats and the 5th seat is a kid seat. I have sat back there. It's not awful but not very practical. My guess is the 5th and 6th seats in aircraft so equipped are kid seats as well but someone else would have to comment on that. I would be happy to talk with you on the phone next week or later as I have a cold at the moment and cannot speak very well. In my opinion, the C337 is a great airplane. Expensive, yes but that is relative. Perfect, no. All airplanes are expensive and imperfect. Finding a good one would be important. Your attitude as far as I can tell by your post is in the correct place for C337 ownership. What follows is the cut and paste from 2016....... I have looked back at my Excel spreadsheets and I can give you some idea of my numbers over the last several years. I cannot go all the way back to 2002 as that would require digging out an old computer but this should give you an idea anyway. These numbers are total dollars spent on my 1973 C337G (non-turbo) per year. They include hanger, insurance, 100LL, and maintenance all combined in one number. The airplane has been paid for since 2002. I own the hanger and it's operating cost is about $2000/year. My insurance runs about $2300/year for $90,000 hull, $1,000,000 liability and $100,000/passenger (pretty standard policy). I burn 17 gal/hour (hobbs). If we pick about $5.50/gallon of 100LL and multiply by 17, we get $93.50/hour on average for gas. Anyway, subtract all this from the total dollars spent in any one year and you will be left with a pretty good approximation of the maintenance dollars spent in any particular year. Hope this helps.... 2015: $18,688.59, 57.9 hours (hobbs), derived maintenance $8,974.94 2014: $16,299.93, 32.9 hours (hobbs), derived maintenance $8,923.78 2013: $18,817.52, 54.0 hours (hobbs), derived maintenance $9,468.52 2012: $25,011.97, 76.3 hours (hobbs), derived maintenance $13,577.92 2011: $13,407.81, 83.6 hours (hobbs), derived maintenance $1,291.21 2010: $23,997.47, 86.4 hours (hobbs), derived maintenance $11,619.07 2009: $32,270.33, 79.3 hours (hobbs), derived maintenance $20,555.78 2008: $34,665.76, 96.4 hours (hobbs), derived maintenance $21,352.36 2007: $24,132.48, 89.3 hours (hobbs), derived maintenance $11,482.93 The year 2011 is low because there was no annual inspection that calendar year. My annual inspection cycles are 13 months (always signed off on the 1st and then I go to the last day of that month a year later) and then the plane is always down for at least a month during the annual inspection. The years 2002 thru 2006, I owned the plane with partners and we had a system set up to charge hourly with assessments to cover the inevitable short falls. (The hourly rate was always way too low.) The first two annual inspections were large. Going on memory here, $21,000 the first year (mentioned in a previous post) and I believe $14,000 to $15,000 the second year but not certain on that one. I have always told folks the airplane is about a $300 to $350 per hour airplane depending on whether it was a good or bad year. These numbers average about $315/hobbs-hour if you do the math. I am not a mechanic. I read and study maintenance like crazy (big Mike Busch fan) and always have my nose stuck in the airplane during maintenance events, however I pay Lumanair Aviation Services at the Aurora Airport in Sugar Grove, IL to do 99% of the maintenance. They are an FAA and Cessna certified repair station and this is Chicago, IL prices. In other words, "high." My IA has been there 45+ years and he remembers when Skymasters were new. I feel good when he works on my plane. They have had some retirements there in the last year or two with the young ones replacing the old guys. I'm a little nervous about this but so far the supervision seems adequate and in all the years I have been flying the plane, I have never had a serious in flight issue so I seem to be getting what I pay for. Also, I do not save for engine or prop reserves. I just pay as I go. If you are mechanically inclined and can perform the maintenance yourself under supervision of your IA, you can save big bucks. Parts can be expensive but the labor is way more expensive. In my opinion, storing an airplane outside is a mistake and possibly a safety issue. These airplanes will leak water into places you don't want, critters are numerous, ultraviolet light, hot, and cold cycles are simply brutal on airplanes. I would strongly encourage a hanger. I'm done preaching on that. Looking ahead in the future for this plane, the engines are now about 40 hours beyond factory TBO. My intention is to continue as long as I feel I can safely do so, provided I don't lose faith in the engines. So far so good. I figure to keep this airplane going for the long term will require someone (maybe me, maybe not) to invest at least $100,000. I'm guessing factory reman engines installed with props and ADS-B plus "odds & ends" will cost all that. My paint and interior are good but far from perfect. The panel is all King digital stuff with a GPS that couples reasonably well to the old Century III auto-pilot. Everything works (including the ADF) and I certainly do my best to keep it that way. I'm an old school guy. The G1000 panels are pretty but I don't want or need to fly behind one. These airplanes, as mentioned in a previous post, are truly wonderful machines. Cessna had a great idea and executed it quite well in my opinion. They are however, an enormous commitment in time and money. If one is willing to put forth the resources, they will be rewarded with an outstanding airplane! If you have anymore questions, I'll do my best to answer and hopefully I haven't screwed up any math too bad. Take Care, Ed Asmus N1873M 
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#2
01-10-18, 03:52 PM
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Thanks Ed,
Your post is actually where I came up with my estimate of 25-30k average per year since your annual hourly use is similar to mine (a little high, based on your numbers, but I'm trying to be conservative)! I've poured through the forums and your post was the easiest logic for me to follow and the most comprehensive regarding ownership/operating costs. I agree with your admonishment of leaving a plane parked outside, but unfortunately, my limited airport options here don't offer hangar space. Hopefully some good covers and tlc can make up for some of the weathering my eventual purchase will take. Thank you again for this post. It's really helpful to us prospective buyers to see an unbiased accounting of a real-world, owners expenses.
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#3
01-10-18, 04:15 PM
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If the plane is parked outside, on my airplane the danger spots are:
1) FUEL CONTAMINATION..... The airplane left the factory with thermos bottle type caps. Mine are less than a year old now but that accident report has been written many many times. The caps have a high probability of letting water in. This would be a HHHHUUUUGGGGEEEE concern for me on an airplane living outside. I do believe there is a retrofit kit that completely changes that fuel cap configuration to solve this problem. I would look into this as I am not educated to it. My airplane never gets wet. 2) AVIONICS ACCESS PANELS located in front of the windshield. I learned this lesson the hard way at Oshkosh back in 2003. There is a service bulletin dealing with this. I have complied with this but would never trust it. This panels will leak eventually and avionics will get WET. 3) DOORS AND WINDOWS... not really a safety issue but not good for the air-frame. Corrosion will eventually begin. This could likely be resolved with big efforts in replacing all windows and associated seals but I doubt that any air-frame of any model aircraft can be made completely water tight. They are old and hand made and no two airplanes are the same. The stuff never fits perfectly. Just my opinion. Also, on this date, my old engines are still good. They have about 1670 hours since factory reman or about 170 past the recommended TBO. As mentioned, I will keep running them until I lose faith or they show a sign of distress. Preferably that sign of distress would occur in the shop and not in the air. I guess that's where the "faith" part comes into play. Infant mortality seems to be the greatest risk of all to new or recently overhauled engines. I'm in no hurry to go there. My IA's 75 hour SMOH with brand new factory cylinders is having valve trouble. That sucks..... Good Luck and I'll help if I can. Ed
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#4
01-10-18, 04:59 PM
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Great info - and thank you again. I've been stuck parking all my planes outside down here. It's a bummer, but unavoidable. Full cabin covers help reduce the heat (terrible for avionics - I learned that with the first plane I owned down here). Not sure what is available for the 337, that will be one of my first investments.
One of my other questions was regarding the seats. Do you have the 5th and 6th rear seats? I'm really curious if they could be occupied a couple people with a 5'5" frames and around 120 lbs each for 1-2 hour legs with a reasonable degree of comfort. It also appears these were eliminated on post 73 models? Is that correct? Thanks again - and sorry to keep asking questions! I'm just really limited down here with not a single 337 on the ramp. I'm planning on starting to journey up to the mainland to start checking out models that are for sale in Florida. I know that's the best way to learn and maybe I'll stumble across the "right one" in the process.
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#5
01-10-18, 05:24 PM
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My plane a 1973 C337G and only has 5 seats. I think all 1973 and later C337's only have 5 seats. The aft seat is small, however I would say suitable for 5 '5 120 pound folks.
In my airplane, the bigger problem is not so much the comfort once seated, it is actually getting seated back there. It requires this mildly cumbersome effort to release the middle bench seat and raise it vertically (it's hinged) so one can gain access to the aft area for bags or 5th seat. Once seated, comfort is OK, even for me at 180 pounds 5 '11. The middle bench seat is heavy (40 pounds) and not very convenient to move around. I actually do not carry the middle bench seat in my airplane anymore. After I recovered the seats, I decided to never install it. I usually only fly with myself or one other person so needing all 5 is not necessary for me. A third person can easily sit in the aft small seat and gain access to it if the middle bench seat is not installed. The entire middle of the cabin is open space for whatever you want to carry without the middle bench seat installed. It's quite nice but obviously no good if you want to carry more than 3 people in a G model. Another "mild" safety concern would be an aft seat passenger exiting the aircraft in an emergency. It would require crawling over the middle bench seat to get out. The back rests on the middle bench seat can be quickly flattened forward creating more space but it would still require crawling over the entire seat to get to the door. I believe 1972 models and earlier all had baggage doors back there that doubled as emergency exits. 1973 was the year of pressurization and Cessna eliminated the baggage doors so as to not have more places for cabin air to escape. I think since the baggage door went away, part of the certification requirements were no more than 5 seats but not positive on this. My airplane is not pressurized but it is my understanding from 1973 on, Cessna built all the frames the same whether it was going to be a P-model or not. Consequently, no baggage door for me. You can have one installed I believe on 1973 and later models but that will require a $1 or $2.
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