idaho back country flying

B2C2 · #1 04-17-11, 11:11 PM

Im considering getting a 337, and was wondering if anyone can comment on its abilities to get in and out of the idaho backcountry. I have read in this and other forums about use of the aircraft in central america and other places that suggest it is capable for short and rough field operations if configured properly. I would not attempt this without proper training, but would like any comments on feasibility and how an aircraft should be best configured for this. ie STOL configurations, VGs, Turbo vs non-turbo etc. Thanks for your help.

ngb1066 · #2 04-18-11, 07:50 AM

I have a similar question from across the pond. I have been thinking of buying a Skymaster for some time. I have a level 650 -700 yard grass strip, with good approaches, i.e. no obstacles at either end other than a low hedge. I could if necessary extend the strip by a few yards but would rather not if possible. The weather in southern UK is obviously not the same as Idaho and we do have regular rainfall. However the strip is well drained and the ground rarely gets very soft. I would be interested to hear opinions on the suitability of a Skymaster with either Robertson or Horton STOL kit fitted for use from my strip.

Roger · #3 04-18-11, 08:28 AM

I would suggest a Husky

ngb1066 · #4 04-18-11, 09:31 AM

If I wanted a single engined aircraft a Cessna 182 would be fine to operate from my strip. However, I want a twin and I like the added safety of CLT which is why I am keen to have a 337. I am interested to hear opinions of those with experience of the 337 on whether my plan is sensible or not.

WebMaster · #5 04-18-11, 10:58 AM

I live on 4N0, it is a 2500 ft long grass strip.
My airplane didn't have any stol characteristics. I was able to get down and stopped using less than 1/2 the runway. Same for take off. There are trees, and a hill, on the south end, and just trees on the north end. With 600 yards, and no trees, you will have no problems.

Roger · #6 04-18-11, 11:02 AM

Sorry, I read that as 650-700 feet

jchronic · #7 04-18-11, 12:12 PM

For ngb-

I tend to agree with Larry Bowdish. I frequently take my 337D (non-STOL) in and out of the 2300' blacktop strip where I live, and we're surrounded by tall trees. If I'm where I should be speed-wise on approach (85-90) and hit the touchdown zone I can usually stop in about 16-1800 ' without undue effort; on turf you can do better than that (on soggy turf, even better!).

You should be fine if it's flat around your strip, even with an engine out at gross weight.

Joe

ngb1066 · #8 04-18-11, 12:58 PM

Larry and Joe

Thank you for your helpful advice on this. I can now move forward with the project.

Neil

hharney · #9 04-19-11, 12:00 AM

I lived and flew in the mountains of Idaho, Montana and Nevada for 20 some years. I started out using a 172 and learning the basics of mountain flying. Dad had two different Skymasters both normal aspirated. Turbo's would be nice but not a necessity. Here are a couple of strips I did operations in and out of several times.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/55H
http://www.airnav.com/airport/U60
http://www.airnav.com/airport/U81
http://www.airnav.com/airport/U63
http://www.airnav.com/airport/U87

Here is some action at U87
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0374385469147#

Don't let the length of these strips fool you. You might say that these strips are 3 and 4,000 ft long. No big deal. Check the elevation at some of these locations. Then think about DENSITY ALTITUDE. If you think about taking off in the summer at one of these strips you are going to be easily looking at a 10,000 ft density altitude. So not to be taken lightly. These strips sometimes have one way in and one way out. You are also on turf, dirt, gravel, not hard surface. Take all this in account when flying the back country.

The normal aspirated Skymaster is a really nice aircraft for these operations. You can really have a good time taking your Skymaster into these beautiful areas.

The STOL kit is a great addition. VG's would be another great addition but I have never flown with them. The gear on the Skymaster is strong, no problems on the rough surface. The only other caution is the rear prop picking up FOD. One must practice good techniques in the some loose surface areas.

The Skymaster will work well, if fact for most of my experience it was very impressive and comfortable. I think a lot people were surprised when we showed up in a twin.

B2C2 · #10 04-23-11, 10:47 PM

Thanks for the detailed answer. It looks like this is doable. Now off to find the right airplane. I have been searching around and visited "skymaster center" (www,skymaster.com). Has anyone had any dealings with them and could comment on their experience?

hharney · #11 04-24-11, 12:59 PM

Skymaster Center is the foremost experienced with the aircraft, especially in marketing and representing more aircraft than any other dealer. They have been in business for over 20 years. Contact Bill Crews and you will learn a lot about buying a Skymaster.

Phone: (864) 583-5967

FAX: (864) 585-1188

E-mail: BillCrews@Skymaster.com

atsiii · #12 05-01-11, 08:19 PM

I live and fly a T337 in Idaho, and am based in Driggs, ID (KDIJ) at the foot of the Tetons (6220 MSL). While my Skymaster is both turbo and STOL, for most of the Skymaster-friendly Idaho back country strips, the STOL is not really needed. Turbo is always nice at high density altitudes, but since you will almost always be flying early--normally aspirated is fine.

I think one of the biggest consideration with Skymasters in the back country is the rocks and gravel. Most back country strips in Idaho are high, dry and rocky... with emphasis on the rocky. There are not many good grass strips in Idaho's mountains, and Herb listed most of them (with the exception of Johnson Creek--my personal favorite). Many of the back country strips have lots of loose gravel--and your rear prop will not like that. My suggestion is to look closely at photos and call nearby FBO's to determine what the runway surface is really like. Most strips are not watered, so the surface can change a lot during a long summer.

Ernie Martin · #13 05-01-11, 10:47 PM

I've flown my normally aspirated 337 into Garden Valley (U88) and found it with good grass, no loose gravel. My son (who was posted there when he was a Heli-attack forest firefighter) still has friends there; if you plan a trip there, I can get you a name and phone of someone who can tell you current conditions. BTW it was a real cross-country -- all the way from Miami, Florida and over the Rockies.

Ernie

Amgdawg · #14 05-05-11, 06:20 PM

Hello All,

I live in Boise and fly a 182 and spend all my time in the back country on everything that can handle it. Yet my love for a skymaster has always been there since it was the first plane I ever flew in so I have wanted to get one as well and have spent the past 6 months researching the ability for it to take the back country. Spoke with some MAF piltos flying them in South America and FIRE guys as FAC here in Id and Ca. and some Vietnam FAC guys about 02's. Bottom line I never got a straight or consistent answer on the gear strength and reliability (so I want a 336) and the FOD attraction on rear prop (why it is a magnet when the ground distance seems high enough to avoid vortices), but to contribute ... the strip conditions as of today are- Upper Loon, Weatherby, Id Cty, Challis, Pine, Prairie and Magic Reservoir and the soils are very LOOSE right now - prop took it on the last flight. Will be in Sulpher Creek tomorrow to make an attempt and check snow levels...well see.So be careful and if you do not have mountain experience get some with an instructor as these hills can bite if your not careful.

I would love to find a 336 if anyon knows anyone with one they might consider...or if you can tell me how to get a field approval to inop retract and lock it in??

hharney · #15 05-05-11, 07:14 PM

There should be no concern for the gear, it's a non-issue. The FOD in the rear prop is from the front prop and the tires picking up particles and allowing the rear to suck them in. One must exercise caution when departing and during ground taxi ops. There are some techniques that will minimize the risks for rear prop damage but there is no guarantee to eliminate it. You will have a difficult time finding a suitable 336 compared to the 337's that are out there today and basement bargain prices. Just remember, a Skymaster is a very complex machine and does require a good maintenance program. This has created an over abundance of RAMP QUEENS out there in the aircraft world. Pilots buy the Skymaster thinking they are such a good deal and safety aspect for a light twin. Then when it comes to keeping the bird in the sky it eats them alive and therefore the airplane is parked. It is not unlike any other light twin in most respects but my theory is that unprepared pilots buy the Skymaster when they should have bought a 182.

Turbo is nice but not necessary. It does make the machine even more complex and more maintenance. I would however insist on a STOL kit. The pressurized model is very nice if you have that type of mission. Going to the back country would not warrant a P model. It's a buyers market out there but make sure you have a good thorough pre-buy performed by a mechanic that knows Skymasters.

It is a great airplane for the back country. This is why the Air Force chose it. Visibility, strength, ability, power, stability, center line thrust and ruggedness all make the Skymaster a good utility aircraft. I have flown a number of the Idaho back country strips in mine. I have also used it with a stretcher for rescue and it works very well. It's a work horse twin that's safe and easy to fly.