New Generation Gps

[hharney]

HAS ANYONE HAD THEIR HANDS ON A CNX 80? THE UPSAT APPOLLO GPS. HOW DOES IT COMPARE TO THE GARMIN 530?

[WebMaster]

I have seen several reviews, and it looks to be incredible. GPS approaches, using GPS to generate the ILS. Very cool.

[JediNein]

Greetings,
I wrote a book on using 16 of the most popular IFR panel mount GPS units including the GARMIN 530 and CNX80. From that, my opinion on the CNX80 as compared to the 530:
Smaller display
Lots more buttons and those buttons change their functions every so often
Not as intuitive, it took me 6 hours to get the sucker to do a GPS approach yet I was able to get the 530 to do an approach the first time I walked up to it.
Has more ways to get lost in the unit
Has an annoying habit of not navigating GPS direct unless you force it, kind of like Microsoft's naggy "are you sure you want to do that?" question box every time you change something. (The 'discontinuity" feature)
Requires confirmation of any change in the flight plan, won't save changes until you "EXECUTE"
Limited in what units it will communicate with (weather? traffic? HAH! Buy the MX20 run on Microsoft Windows for that)
Not any more accurate in position even with WAAS (2.2 feet estimated position error sitting next to a 530 saying the same thing while near a known active WAAS ground station.
Even though it is WAAS compliant, you still can't fly a precision GPS approach with it.
Does allow input of Victor Airways (but requires too much button pressing to get the durn things in there, faster to input the start, end, and course change points)
Displays the Victor Airways and Jet Routes on the maps (screen clutter!!!! Won't let you just display YOUR flight planned airway)
Will allow control of a remote transponder, once or if the remote transponder is developed
Allows storage of an Alternate in the active flight plan, which really doesn't provide that much of a benefit.
Has a FlyLeg feature, 3-4 button presses versus 2 button presses on the 530
Has a NRST button
Can only use one radio at a time. The Big/Little Knob will only work COM function OR VOR function OR GPS function. If ATC gives you a clearance change followed by a frequency change, you'd better have a way to write it down as the CNX80 won't let you work both. The 530 will let you stop working with the flight plan, work the radio, continue with the flight plan.
Default "get to same place every time" key is the MAP key. Press it, go to a map page.
No CLEAR button
Smaller print on the screen, especially the setup pages.
If there is a Map view other than the 120 degree arc, I haven't found it.
Sizes the pink line on the screen to the ground path of the aircraft for such things as holds and procedure turns. Great, but the pilot has other things to do than to make sure the little airplane is always on the little pink line.
Lots of software updates coming, be good friends with your dealer. (530 does have some updates occasionally, but not for basic functionality!)

Both units have:
Non-precision GPS approachs
Moving Map Displays
COMM/VOR
Flight Plans
SIDs (DPs) & STARs
Extensive everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know about airports, navaids, frequencies, etc.
Nearest
WAAS compatibility (when General Aviation can do precision GPS approaches, the 530 will be capable of them)
Timers
Vertical Navigation advisories

The 530 has, but the CNX80 doesn't have the ability to display:
Traffic from TIS, TCAD, TCAS
NEXRAD, METARS
STORMSCOPE Data
Terrain
Air Data Computer info (Wind Vectors)
Fuel Burn and Flow info,
or to give position reporting.

An avionics shop owner friend has installed 8 CNX80s so far. He claims all of the owners love their units. Yet none of those folks have tried a non-precision GPS approach in IMC with it.

If you want easy-to-learn, easy-to-use, go with the 530. If you want to beat your head against the brick wall for awhile, go with the CNX80. Master the CNX80 on the ground before attempting to go fly with it, especially if it is your only comm radio.

Hope that helps,
Jedi Nein

[Dave Underwood]

Thanks for that. A bit of an eye opener to compare the two products. Can you comment on the poor report on the GL49 in the other thread?

Regards - Dave

[kevin]

Yes, really nice report. Also, I am suprised when you say you cannot execute a precision WAAS approach with it. I thought that was one of the benefits of this unit? Can you expand on that?

Thanks,

Kevin

[hharney]

THANKS JEDI
VERY INFORMATIVE AND VALUABLE INSIGHT
ONE REASON I HAVE ALWAYS LIKED GARMIN WAS USER EASE AND FRIENDLYNESS
THE FIRST THING I DON'T WANT TO DO IS MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO USE A NEW TOOL THAT REQUIRES QUICK THINKING
I'VE HEARD STORIES OF APPROACHES THAT ARE UNDERWAY AND SOMEONE TOUCHES THE WRONG BUTTON
OOPPS

YOU MENTIONED A BOOK THAT YOU WROTE
ANY MORE INFORMATION ABOUT IT?

I AM ALSO INTERESTED IN THE GTX 330 TRANSPONDER S MODE
THAT INCLUDES TRAFFIC AVOIDANCE
SOUNDS LIKE THE 530 AND THE 330 WOULD BE A GREAT PAIR

[JediNein]

Greetings,
First the GDL49: I have found a lag in the data transfer between the Satellite and the GDL49. What happens is if the pilot sets up to request NEXRAD, Graphical METARs, position reports, and requests text METARs every 10-15 minutes, it overloads the system. Every time the satellite tries to transmit to the GDL49, the process gets interrupted by a request for more information. We've found that requesting one service every ten minutes plus position reporting works well.

Typically, NEXRADs are something that can help a pilot during the flight to avoid entire areas, while the graphical METARs are good information before starting the approach. The actual text of the METAR might work for avoiding an entire area such as the Central Valley of CA while trying to beat the winter fog, but that information is only updated approximately once per hour. You may or may not get the request in or the response back when the weather is changing rapidly for Special METARS (SPECIs). Also when weather is changing rapidly, ATC and FSS are much better sources of information.

I've used the NEXRAD information on a few flights in the Central Valley of CA. In the summer the Sierra Mountains have thunderstorms. Summer=Thunderstorms. You have to pay close attention in two cases. The first is when the thunderstorms break loose from the Sierras and start moving east or west. The second is when the Coastal Range has thunderstorms. Sometimes the weather is too dangerous to go IFR so one has to go VFR. Anyways, this was a case of the Coastal Range having thunderstorms and the ones from the Sierras were on the move. Serious to severe thunderstorms were over Fresno and west, while the coastal range had heavy rains and an occasional cell. The desert monsoon had moved north combined with a cold front offshore. NEXRAD showed the reds and yellows over the east end of the valley and the extreme west end through to offshore. However, the I-5 corridor which runs along the foothills of the west end was clear. Our flight was beautiful VFR, smooth and clear for miles northwest and southeast, while we stayed clear of the bad stuff by several miles. We landed, parked, did one last check of the NEXRAD while in the FBO which still showed clear, and by the time dinner was served the storms hit.

<hr>
Precision WAAS Approach: The FAA has NOT given us general aviation types the information on how we can be approved to shoot precision VNAV approaches. Currently there are only 16 approaches in the entire U.S. that have GPS VNAV minimums (NOT the VNAV line on the Jepp charts!!!!) and those require baro-aided VNAV equipment.

Until FAA figures out what us GA folks need to do for approval, we can't do precision GPS approaches. When that approval process comes out, expect GARMIN to have the WAAS upgrade specifications for the 530 and 430s. The timeframe is around 16 months.

FAA also has some concerns about many accidents where the equipment on board the aircraft could have prevented the accident, but the pilot(s) didn't know how to use them. I think training standards will be issued as part of the VNAV approval process.

<hr>

The first thing I don't want to do is make it more difficult to use a new tool that requires quick thinking. I've heard stories of approaches that are underway and someone touches the wrong button

Oooooops indeed. I've done that a few times, but have always been able to recover before blowing the approach completely. The GARMIN 500 and 400 series are the only GPS units I know of that will still go into approach mode while nagging the pilot to hit the proper button sequences the whole time. Those messages include "Select appropriate frequency for approach," "Set OBS to XXX," "Select VLOC (or GPS) for approach", and so on. VERY user friendly nag messages because they tell you what to do and when you do it, the system works great!

The 530 and GTX 330 are a great pair. Our flight school Warrior at Van Nuys will have the 430/330 combo in it soon. In the areas where the traffic information service is available (not the Central Valley *SIGH*), the traffic display is excellent. Keep in mind that it only shows traffic with working transponders. Traffic with no transponder, transponder inoperative, no electrical system, and so on won't show.

On the book, I have two different series available.

The first is "GPS Inflight QuickRef Guide" which is six checklists that cover the use of 16 IFR panel mount GPS units. I start off with a diagram of the GPS unit's various pages and groups, then give button-by-button directions on how to use the various features of the unit. Using the embedded COM and NAV radios is first, then on to how to go Direct, Nearest, use the moving map, use flight plans, ensure the unit will do a GPS approach, do a GPS approach, then go missed or divert to an alternate. I kept the book short and to the point so it is useable in the cockpit. The units covered (and 90% similar) are: GARMIN's 530 (500, 520), 430 (400, 420), Apollo CNX80, Apollo GX series (50, 55, 60, 65), King KLN 94 (89, 89B), and King KLN 90B (90). For more details, head over to my website once I get the page done or email me. (I'll post the link soon)

The second book is a series on each particular multifunction display. The first one in the series is a checklist for using the GARMIN 530 with add-ins. I'm not sure if I'll be offering it customized, with everything, or both ways. The add-ins are Echoflight, GTX 330, Skywatch, Stormscope, Ryan TCAD, Bendix King KTA 870, Air Data, engine analyzers, and terrain once the details become available. The add-in sections have the checklist for bringing up the data overlays, limitations of that particular product, and tips for use. The other books in series will cover the MX20, Avidynes, I-linc, and King products. For more details, head over to my website, again once I get the book and page done.

Both books are the "Cliff's Notes" of the user manuals including the things the manuals don't tell you.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

[Francisco]

Jedy, what can you tell me about the apollo 2001 Navigation managment computer tso gps?

Francisco