Avemco Quote

dan1000 · #1 09-16-21, 05:53 PM

I would like to acknowledge that what you’re saying is that it’s very difficult to find insurance at your current level of pilot license qualification. That must be very frustrating. I’m wondering if there might be a solution, if you’re willing to change the order in which you do things. In particular I’m wondering whether it might be worthwhile getting your multi rating first, before seeking insurance. Fortunately, from what I remember, getting a multi rating is actually pretty simple, not too many hours of instruction. Not too much demanded of you. Hopefully, if you try that, you’ll find that a few more of the doors to insurance are open. At least I hope so.

Dan

GAdams · #2 09-16-21, 07:35 PM

My question is for those that self insure, how or what do you provide to the landlord for the hangar lease insurance requirement?
Everytime I rent a hangar I must provide a policy naming the airport as additional insured. How do you get around that if self insured?

wslade2 · #3 09-16-21, 11:11 PM

Ditto what dan1000 says. Twin rating made a major difference. In fact back when I put contract on my 337 I started twin training concurrently as prior queries revealed no insurance or exorbitant insurance premiums for a proposed 337 ownership without it. I got a quote as high as $9000 without twin rating. You can be ready in low number of hours (single digits depending).

Regarding hangars and insurance: hangar space has been hard to find. I own two airplanes and lease two hangar spaces. One in major metropolitan area and the other space 60 miles away in the sticks on old air force field. Metropolitan hangar, wood framed with metal roof and sides and single sixty watt lightbulb absolutely had to have copies of insurance with limits set by municipality, separate municipality lawyer prepared subrogation language, investigation of the LLC holding my plane, authentication with the state about LLC standing and all legal docs filed, operating agreement, personal information on members (me), verification of tax standing, aircraft registration (other owners report getting a notice to vacate if late on renewing-they track you) and other ownership documents (such as bill of sale), municipality right for spontaneous inspection, copies of keys, list of do's and don'ts (in particular what to do with oil), wattage of appliances, size of micro refrigerator, municipality lawyer signoff (that alone took 60 days)...need I go on.

Hangar in the sticks was a handshake deal. I might be the only one with insurance in there.

BTW-remote airport has small annual airshow, hosts car shows and other similar activities, brings Air National Guard in to show off their equipment and skills. Metropolitan airport does nothing.

YankeeClipper · #4 09-17-21, 12:32 AM

Not only agree with the advice--it's (God forgive me the pun) in motion. I'm going to train and test for multi--with wheels down for now (training wheels?)--in my very own Delta, soon as the engine is back in. Might as well add time in type while I'm at it. CLT limitation be damned.

What really stung was that some turned down non-motion because of my low hours. Apparently inexperienced pilots can start hurricanes from their living rooms. Others, it should be noted, just weren't interested in small sized policies like that. Thought it didn't matter...

cartrm · #5 09-17-21, 09:47 AM

FWIW here is my experience:

I'm into my second year of 337 ownership. Definitely not the highest number of hours (~600), but mostly on retracts so that helps. At the time I bought, I had very low multi time - basically the hours from my rating plus a couple more here and there.

The insurer who I was with for my previous airplane would only give me liability/not-in-motion for the first year due to hours and aircraft type. Fair. Was asked for my plan to get trained in the 337 - gave it to them, no questions asked.

They said try again for in-motion next year. Renewal came around, original insurer still wouldn't give in-motion. Shopped around to other brokers, both of whom had no problem giving in-motion coverage for all six seats, and a fair hull value. Ended up being cheaper than what I was paying for in-motion on the previous airplane with the original insurer, at the same hull value and only one seat.

Worth pointing out that I'm in Canada, but the underwriters in question write policies in the US as well. One broker told me as long as the airplane was N-registered, they would write a policy no matter where in the world it was actually located.

We'll see what next year's renewal brings. It would be great to stay with one broker rather than having to shop around every time.

mshac · #6 09-17-21, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAdams

My question is for those that self insure, how or what do you provide to the landlord for the hangar lease insurance requirement?
Everytime I rent a hangar I must provide a policy naming the airport as additional insured. How do you get around that if self insured?

Live on a private airport like I do - no insurance requirements.

Hangar your plane at a small rural airport that does not have a team of ass-hat lawyers making everything as difficult and complicated as possible for aircraft owners.

TomM · #7 09-17-21, 05:14 PM

We had a discussion on insurance when I first joined here about a year and a half ago, with the same issues of people having a hard time getting insurance. I am glad I didnt go through that or I would have given up. I had no problem getting insurance from the first person I talked to.

When I got my 337 spring of 2019 I had 1200 hrs TT ALL of which was in 150's and 172s. I am 54 and do have my instrument rating. I sold my 172 and bought a 337 with zero multi time, zero high performance time and zero retract time. You would think I would be the guy that would never get insurance. But that was not the case. See my COI attached. I had my instructor listed as a named pilot and the insurance company called the shots on the experience requirements. The training time took care of all that. So by the time I passed my check ride, I was able to fly her home.

My insurance cost for the first year was $2500 with a hull coverage of $45,000 (just a knock around plane, nothing fancy).

I did think the rate would go down this year as I flew the plane 120 hours last year, but that was not the case. My renewal costs were the same as the year before.

It is a bummer to hear you are having issues. I would not want to have missed flying these planes, I totally love them!!

Best of luck!

TomM · #8 09-17-21, 05:21 PM

As a follow up to my post, be aware of the definition of PIC:

Training flights present another common scenario where a pilot who is not the sole manipulator of the controls may still log PIC time. If the student is piloting the aircraft, the certified flight instructor (CFI) is still acting as the pilot in command since the CFI bears the ultimate authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight. According to FAR 61, the student will not log PIC time even if they are the sole manipulator of the controls. It is not until the student is taking their check ride that they are eligible to log their flight time as PIC.

So my instructor, being a named person on my policy, is the PIC during flight training so all insurance requirements are met and allows you to train in your own aircraft.