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#1
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ALCOR EGT Probe #86255
Here's the scoop on another item you will be paying MORE for, but not so much because of ALCOR's doings.
For those of you with the 'old' 2001 Chief Catalog #16, on page 48 you'll find the Alcor 3-year EGT probe P/N 86255... this is the very same OEM unit that Cessna installed on the front and rear engines of most Skymasters, if yours has the optional "Economy Mixture Indicator", Item No. C49-A listed in the Equipment List Description of Section 6 of your POH. The same probe that Chief used to sell for $58.50 is Cessna P/N C668503-0102, that Cessna will gladly sell you today for a whopping $169.50 bucks each! The reason I bring this up... I called Chief this morning to order a spare probe to have on hand... and I was shocked to learn that Alcor P/N 86255 is now $72.50. Chief's new catalog #18 that I just THIS WEEK received in the mail lists the probe for $65.50. Now, from $58.50 to $72.50 is about a 24% INCREASE, or $14 bucks. SO boys & girls, I called Chief and asked them 'WHY' the price of this particular item had gone-up so much, but all of the rest of Alcor's probes had not. The sales rep at Chief said the price increase was all because of Alcor raising their prices. So I called Alcor and spoke to Rick who is the head-honcho. BTW, their number is 1-800-FLI-SAFE and they are GREAT people to talk with. And if your probe ever fails within the 3-year warranted period, they WILL replace it free of charge. Rick informs me that Alcor only increased their price by 6% on January 1st of 2002... and it's their first price increase in almost 5-years. So far so good. But wait, 24% minus 6% is still 18%... so WHO is ripping off who? Well, there are two things going on here. First, Alcor's probe, P/N 86255 is used on practically EVERY Cessna single-engine airplane ever made, including the Skymaster, and as such, there is a large demand. Second, Alcor doesn't sell direct to customers or Chief Aircraft direct... they sell the same item to Cessna under their exclusive proprietary part number, and to the Big 3: AAR Corporation, AVIALL, and API (formerly AMR/Combs)... which in turn sells to the FBO's and Chief, and from there to the end user. So, it is both the 'middle-man' and Chief... who have made what they refer to as a "business decision" (quote from Chief Aircraft) to raise their price by 18%... and now you know some of the rest of the story. Just know that some bean counter has made a "business decision" to raise their end of things by 18%. BTW, Rick and I had a rather long discussion about how pricey parts are becoming for airplanes and while he is aware of the problem, it's a double-edged sword of sorts, as his small company is kept in business by the Big 3 and their MONOPOLY of bulk purchases... and you can bet the Big 3 are getting theirs for at least 50% of list price, which for the #86255 probe is about $42 bucks. Alcor's list price is $84. Isn't Capitalism, or is it called Profiteerism, just great? And just think about what makes up the probe in the first place: a couple of pieces of measured Ohm resistance wires, two dissimilar metals, an adjustable metal band, heat resistance covering and two connectors. BTW, Rick tells me that under an old grandfather agreement, before the Big 3 came along, they've always sold direct to SkyRanch, so we'll report later what their price is... hopefully it will be less expensive. SkyKing 
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#2
08-29-02, 05:09 PM
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Sacramento Sky Ranch... YEP!
Well guys/gals,
John at Sacramento Sky Ranch has the Alcor #86255 EGT probes in stock for $60.48 plus shipping. BTW, you won't find them on the website... you have to ask for them. So you see, there's something to be saved when you search for it. Ah, yes... relief from the "Big 3". SkyKing
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#3
08-29-02, 05:30 PM
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Ahhh well not really just a couple of wires...
their are several replacement kinds such as...
http://www.ksavionics.com/products/9...cht_probes.asp As skyking says.. its only a couple of wires... and a metal clamp.... well not exactly... because its not the wires that go bad most of the time... If you look at the schematic you will see that both wires are held above ground... why because of the small voltage and types of metals... yep their are several kinds of different ones and they all are not the same... the older ones if you look at the wires coming out of them and the cable going to the inst on the dash.. you will see that they are colored... the older ones are the red/brown while the newer ones are yellow red... you can tell by the cableing as the yellow... is the newer while the brown is the older... What is the difference... well neither will work on the other... so if you have the older system... you can't put the new probe on it... it won't work right.. neither will the cable .. nor the gauge... they all have to be the same thing... either brown/red.. or red/yellow... Well the new ones are Yellow/Red, (called the K system) is made with Chromel/Alumel (say that 50 times and you win a chance at larrys duck if done correctly) wire... in that they have that type of wire all the way to the meter... and it has to be insulated and shelded from RF .... the old ones are Brown/red, (Called the E system) and are made with chromel and constantan wires... all the way to the meter movement... Which one is Positive and which one is negative... well that was your first clue that they generate a voltage that is DC.... along with a pretty good current... In these cases the red is always the negiative (-) while the other color is always (+). they changed from the older system some time ago because the older ones put out too much voltage... yep when you went thru the range... it would be too great for the meter movement.. to read correctly... (by the way.. EGT meters are not calibrated to a linear range... clue no. 2) so if you are parking that needle on one spot.. you are not at the same heat each time.. because as temp changes.. so does the resistance and voltage that it can generate... But, one thing that we need to cover here... most of the time when you take the probe out of the engine... and put it in the propane torch... it reads good.. and deflects the meter movement... but, when you put it back in... ahhh well.. it just doesn't work... why.. because the forgot to tell you that the two wires are shelded from ground.. by a cermanic tube... and if it gets cracked and breaks.. due to vibration (and what skymaster doesn't vibrate).. you will short out the wires to ground... ground shorting is bad in the life of a EGT... so it will not work... be very careful when you move one around that you do not drop or damage it by shocking it... Can you get the older ones.. yep they will make them up for you... but, you can not put a new one in... why because the new ones are about half the voltage.. but, last twice as long... so subing one is not what you want to do either... no meter movement... kinda thing... To change the system out.. you have to replace the meter movement, cable and probes... they take no power from the plane.. and work on their own by generating voltage when they get heated by the engine exhaust... Are their others.. yes.. their are a couple of others out their that use some different kinds of metals.. but, Alcor is the leader and founder of the EGT... why would you want to change... smile NOTE:.... Also you don't want to hook your flashlight battery up to the system either.. as it will burn out the meter movement.. they are very... very.. sensitive and even using a DMM or VOM can damage one... to the point that it is history... YOu can go to Alcors' page and see the trouble shooting guide if you don't have one they will send you one or allow you to download it off their web page... at...http://www.alcorinc.com/DOCS/1/trouble.html and while they are a good company they will not replace whiner...parts because they are bad or out of date... after all they have to make a living too... and how often do you need one... Hmmmmm.... they are like lightbulbs.. as to their life... but, most seem to go for 10 years.. or so... if taken care of... most of the ones we replace are the ones that some duck got in their and pulled the wires off of... breaking them when they were cleaning the engine... or working on it... smile... Hope that this helps.. GMAs
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#4
08-29-02, 05:41 PM
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Oh and yes they have a test box...
Like anything else they have a test box that will test and calibrate the system... it kinda expensive but, it is required to be in the shop when you are working on the system...
While they go into detail on their web page on how to check your system and calibrate it... we don't recomend that you calibrate anything while flying along... smile.. I don't think we need to go into great detail here why... smile... GMAs
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#5
08-29-02, 08:56 PM
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I actually bought a new gage from Alcor. I didn't want to replace the probes and wiring, which seemed to be working fine even though they were the older original things. But Alcor makes a replacement gage - the only catch is that it is more expensive. I think it cost $150 or so (going by memory - this was about 3 years ago), but that beat replacing the other things in my opinion , especially when we're talking rear engine.
An additional downside is that the earlier model probes cost more when you do need to replace one; if you get a newer gage and wiring, etc. and go to the trouble of replacing things, when a newer version of the probe is needed it is cheaper.
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