Thinking about a P337 - Questions

[acpilot]

Hi all! This is my first post on this forum. I have done a reasonable amount of searching and still have a few questions.

First, some background...

I have around 3100tt (much of it pt135 cargo and firefighting) and around 750hrs in twin Cessnas with about 220 of that in 414/421s and a few hours in a 340. I'm somewhat familiar with pressurized Cessnas but am by no means an expert.

I used to own a 1976 V35B so I am also familiar with the ownership experience. The Bonanza is a fantastic plane (and is the subject of many undeserved rumors) and I'd certainly buy one again...but for the same initial price I can get a pressurized twin! A two or three way partnership in a P337 is much more appealing to me!

I got to fly a P337G last weekend and was impressed. It has to be the best deal in GA. It was stone simple to fly, had the trademark Cessna stability (a little heavy in pitch), and was quick enough though not blazing fast. Climb was a sustained 700fpm @ ~115kias. CHTs got a little warm but that happens. The plane I got to fly was bristling with scoops so it was a few knots slower than book. We were getting ~178ktas @ 16.5k burning ~23gph. CHTs were all low in cruise and the cabin was a comfortable 6,500 - 7,000. I'm 6'3" with a large frame and I was comfortable in the cabin.

Up to this point I had heard that 337s were noisy, thirsty rattletraps with poor performance. That's not what I observed in the P337. It's a ncie plane.

Now, my questions...

1.) I know of the wing AD (5k hrs for non-pressurized, 10k hrs pressurized; 500hrs thereafter). Is this a serious concern or a reactionary AD? How often do people actually find a cracked spar? What is the rough cost of the inspection? My research indicated that there are no fixes available (like the Beech spar doublers) for the 337/P337...is that correct?

2.) A lot of second hand information indicates that the rear engine will not make TBO and certainly will need a top end somewhere along the line. I believe the top end requirement (it's a Continental after all) but the failure to make TBO sounds like BS. Is there any truth to these rumors? Have you seen the rear engines run well beyond TBO or should owners plan on an early OH?

3.) Is there a price difference to OH the rear prop verses the forward prop? Does the rear prop require a specialty shop?

4.) Are there any other major ADs/SBs (current or pending) that are difficult or expensive to comply with? What about recurring ADs?

5.) Do you expect Cessna to continue to support the plane or are they making life hard for owners?

6.) On the P models, is there a mandatory windshield/window replacement schedule? Even if not, what does a P337 windshield/window cost and are they readily available? I hear somewhere near $10k is to be expected.

7.) I know none of the 337s are FIKI but is it worth having/maintaining the de-ice equipment? How does the 337 handle icing? I've never had much trouble carrying ice in 404s and 421s but those also have fat wings and huge engines.

8.) Generally speaking, are 337/P337 spares hard to come by? Have you ever been grounded/heard of anyone grounded for a long period of time for had-to-find spares?

9.) The one thing that scared me away from the 210 was the prospect of a broken gear saddle. Does the 337/P337 have the same saddle problem? I understand that the saddles are very hard to find and, if you can, they're very expensive. Is this true and do you know a ballpark figure for this piece/labor to repair?

10.) Do most 337/P337 have their gear doors removed? Is this something that you recommend and is the STC worth the cost? It seems that doing away with the doors makes sense.

11.) Speaking of the gear, this seems to be a sore point. What is the real deal on the complexity of the P337's gear? There seems to be a fair bit of monkey motion involved and this usually means increased maintenance headaches. How hard is it to rig the gear properly to avoid onerous shop invoices?

12.) Which years are best? I like the idea of 148gals but that seems like a lot of air time. Does the general trend of higher empty weights on later model years hold true for P337s? What's typical useful load for a P model?

13.) Are the fuel tanks bladders or wet wings? What are the maintenance concerns here?

14.) To belly pod or not to belly pod...that's my last question. I plan to only have four seats installed (the 5th seems ridiculous). Is there sufficient cargo space behind the second row for luggage? I also like the idea of AC and I gather that the belly scoop makes podding impossible. True?

These may have been answered in other threads. I searched and could not find the answers.

Thanks!
acp

[hharney]

The search feature of this forum will provide answers for about any question you have. There is probably not a question about the Skymaster that has not been asked on this site. Saying that it is always good for others to see some of the interest that new buyers have to spark their passion.

Wing AD
http://www.337skymaster.com/messages...ing+inspection
http://www.337skymaster.com/messages...ing+inspection
http://www.337skymaster.com/messages...ing+inspection
http://www.337skymaster.com/messages...ing+inspection
http://www.337skymaster.com/messages...ing+inspection

I am not aware of any mods to eliminate the inspection. There are a few air frames out there that are in the ball park for hours and only a dozen or so that are over the hill. It's not a big hour aircraft. The H model did not require the inspection as Cessna must have caught on to the issue and remedied. The H model is known as the best but it really depends on what you are doing and what's the mission. More on that H model in other answers.

[hharney]

TBO - Rear engine

http://www.337skymaster.com/messages...ul+rear+engine

http://www.337skymaster.com/messages...ul+rear+engine

http://www.337skymaster.com/messages...ul+rear+engine

http://www.337skymaster.com/messages...ul+rear+engine

I can't speak for the TSIO versions as my journey with Skymasters has been all normal aspirated. I have replaced two engines, rear and then front, and both went well beyond TBO. In the low to mid 2k for both and they were still operating when I swapped them out. The factory TBO is 100 hours less on the turbo TSIO's but I think you will find that most guys go beyond TBO. My theory is most of the Skymasters are owner flown and usually just one person as the pilot. Not a bunch of Part 135 with several pilots doing different things so the engines tend to go further. Also these TBO's were deemed 40 or 50 years ago and we have gotten a lot smarter how we care for them. Of course regular use is always the best for the engines and sitting idle is the worst.

Like you said they are Continentals and most hangar talk beats them up pretty good. The normal aspirated are really a simple engine and designed for smooth operation. The TSIO version was an afterthought and therefore taxes the system. Treat em right and they will respect you.

[acpilot]

Thanks hharney.

Some of these posts are pretty well seasoned (though still insightful). I'll start looking further back in the archives.

[hharney]

Use the search tab at the top of the window, I'll keep answering as I get time

[hharney]

Props

Nothing special about the props and overhaul or repair. One thing to note is that on the P model the front prop was increased to 78 inch diameter from the original 76 inch. The rear prop stayed 76 inch. The reasoning behind this change was to achieve the same single engine rate of climb for both engines. The rear was a little better on single than the front so Cessna's cure was increase the diameter of the prop 2 inches on the front to equal the rear in single engine rate of climb. Unfortunately it really put the prop close to the ground and picking up FOD from the front to send it back to the rear prop increased. There are techniques to avoid this problem.

[hharney]

AD's

The airplane really doesn't have a long list of AD's and the list isn't too bad on maintenance or occurrence. The list can be found on the FAA website

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...e?OpenFrameSet

You now have to search Textron Aviation not Cessna

[hharney]

Cessna Support

These airplanes are 30, 40 and 50 years old. Cessna expected the fleet to survive a max of 20 years. Parts and support is there but can be challenging. Third party parts are a way of existence provided by several PMA'ed suppliers and manufacturers. There are expensive but I have heard that Beechcraft is more expensive. It is something that we all must be conscience of as these planes continue to age we need replacement parts and support but it's more from the private guys than Cessna.

[hharney]

Windscreen and windows

I am not aware of any life limits on the glass. I haven't researched this so it may be out there. Maybe someone with the P model can pipe in........

Here is an example of costs, but no windscreen or outside glass listed

http://www.glapinc.com/Cessna/337/P337.htm

[hharney]

Icing

http://www.337skymaster.com/messages...ighlight=icing

http://www.337skymaster.com/messages...ighlight=icing

http://www.337skymaster.com/messages...ighlight=icing

The airplane handles ice pretty well. I have been really surprised with the amount of ice I have experienced and it still soldiers on. I have not had ice at Gross Weight

[acpilot]

Originally Posted by hharney

Windscreen and windows

I am not aware of any life limits on the glass. I haven't researched this so it may be out there. Maybe someone with the P model can pipe in........

Here is an example of costs

http://www.glapinc.com/Cessna/337/P337.htm

I did see this but they don't seem to offer the windshields or outer windows.

[hharney]

I just realized that and have a call into them to see