Is It A Thrust Warning Lights On A C336 Required?

[Alfonso]

I need some simple help from a C336 owner via providing me with a copy of the original document that was provided by Cessna when the new aircraft was first sold to a new owner. That document contains the Minimum Equipment List (MEL) and the weight and balance graphs and other essential information. I owned my C336 for over 13 years, and the THRUST WARNING LIGHTS THAT ARE ON TOP OF THE THROTTLES, never worked. Now on this annual inspection, a new IA (Airwordiness Inspector) is requiring that this system be working properly to sign the Annual Inspection. If in fact this instrument is not a part or required on the MEL, I belief that I can legally remove it and get the Annual Inspection done. Any help on this subject will be very much appreciated. My cell phone is 1-480-433-8346, in Brooksville, Florida. I am also an FAA A&P Mechanic. Thanks a million. Alfonso.

[Ed Coffman]

Is it in the equipment list or the type data certificate? The mel only indicates things you can defer. if it is not on the mel you cant defer it. perhaps you should find a different IA. or fix the problem.

[Alfonso]

Ed, thank you very much for your reply. I am looking for a copy of a hard data on the MEL and on the Data Sheet of the C336 airplane. Other t3chnical pages of CESSNA does not describe at all the Thrust Warning Lights as a required element for a go or no go decision. I am looking and asking to the few remaining owners of a C336 if anyone can share with me those seven pages of the MEL, which also contain the weight and balance weights, and other essential information, which I do not have. Perhaps obtaining spare parts for these two systems may not be practical and economical, as it is my understanding that they never work properly. And after CESSNA tried them out in the C336 for about one year they were not Included in the C337s or in the military version on the O-2s. So eliminating it would be the most practical way and legal way to go. All your comments and suggestions are welcome, especially if someone could provide me the MEL and the Data Sheets. Thanks. Alfonso.

[JimC]

I do not believe a legal minimum equipment list ever existed for your plane. If it did, it would be specific to your serial number, and the MEL for another 336 would not be a legal substitute.

Placard the system as INOP and you're good to go.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.213

[Flyer770]

Jim is right, the minimum equipment list is different than what a manufacturer puts on the type certificate as an equipment list. Looking over the 336 TCDS, it looks like the only additional bit of equipment beyond day/night VFR and IFR equipment is a stall warning device. Does it say anything about it in the pilot's book? I would lean on removing the thrust indicator equipment if it hasn't worked in your years of ownership and logging it. If it's not installed, it can't be grounded for not working.

[Alfonso]

Thank you JimC and Fyer770 for your great answers. Recent conversations with CESSNA states that all Cessnas 336 were made identical, however the Minimum Equipmemt List and Data Sheet May be slightly different. That is why I still need a hard paper copy from anyone to properly substantiate my actions to remove the Thrust Warning Light. Does any one you remember using it and any comments on its operation would be great. I love Flyer770 comment of “....if it is not installed, it cannot be grounded for not working.” As placard the equipment inoperative “INOP” I understand that there is some regulation that it will not allow it to continue for a period of a year or so. Does any one has any quotation of such a rule? Thanks again to all of you who are answering to my dilemma. Best regards, Alfonso.

[Flyer770]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

Thank you JimC and Fyer770 for your great answers. Recent conversations with CESSNA states that all Cessnas 336 were made identical, however the Minimum Equipmemt List and Data Sheet May be slightly different. That is why I still need a hard paper copy from anyone to properly substantiate my actions to remove the Thrust Warning Light. Does any one you remember using it and any comments on its operation would be great. I love Flyer770 comment of “....if it is not installed, it cannot be grounded for not working.” As placard the equipment inoperative “INOP” I understand that there is some regulation that it will not allow it to continue for a period of a year or so. Does any one has any quotation of such a rule? Thanks again to all of you who are answering to my dilemma. Best regards, Alfonso.

Alfonso, yes I think a case can be made that it isn't required right off the TCDS. On the bottom of the second page, it says that the only equipment needed is what is listed in CAR 3 and a stall warning device. If it's not required in the regs, it can be removed.

A Minimum Equipment List is not the same as what the manufacturer specifies as required equipment. The required equipment is specified in the type certificate. The Minimum Equipment List is airframe specific, and only applies to one specific airframe that the owner makes the list for. I can have a dozen identical 208s and have to have a MEL approved for each one. If you want to make your own, your local FSDO would be able to approve it.

[general]

As a former 336 owner I agree it is not required, but highly recommended. "Lead with the Rear, until it's clear" (that that the rear engine is making proper power).

[Alfonso]

Thank you General and Flyer770 for you replies.

For General, I have heard that statement before to lead with ear engine, but that does not address the Thrust Warning Lights on top of the throttles on the C336s. There are other instruments more reliable and easier to see if there is any engine trouble on the making, like the EGTs and RPMS. I understand, CESSNA did not put the Thrust Warning Lights on its C337s, O-2s, or CP337s. Do you have any copy of the MEL and Data Sheet for that C336 you owened and flew? It perhaps can help me a lot. Thanks a million.

And for Flyer770, what is CAR 3? It is my understanding as explained by CESSNA last week, that CESSNA has to make an Official Document containing or detailing the Minimum Equipment List and the Data Sheet for each individual aircraft that they manufacture and sell, even if all of them are identical. Thanks again.

Does any one knows about how many C336 are still active? Thanks.

Alfonso.

[general]

The thrust warning lights on my 336 were terribly unreliable. Use all your assets to determine if you have power. The thrust warning lights were an after thought by Cessna which proved unreliable, and that's probably why you don't see them on later Skymasters. You're not going to see them in a minimum equipment list for a Cessna 336 and I've worked for Cessna on 337 projects before.

[general]

The last question above was how many C336's are still flying, per the FAA there's 34 registered in the United States