Q: Insurance recommendation

bjornfb · #1 06-15-20, 12:00 AM

After three years of various repairs and long stays in shops, I finally have my P337 working. Plus it’s time to renew the insurance. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions about good insurance companies or brokers? I’ve got a policy and I’m fine with the price but I don’t like the fact that it requires a specific annual school. I’m happy with annual training — I was doing that with previous single so no problem there — just not happy with the overly specific school written into the insurance. So looking for any suggestions...

Thanks,
-Bjorn

Trippster · #2 06-15-20, 03:10 PM

We've been using Scott smith at skysmith.com for a few years and are happy with the rates and coverage. Not sure how he would quote you for your experience level vs ours. We all have 20,000 hrs of multi turbine time, but the minimum in the 337 for all but me and I only have 75 hours in it.

Tripp

cessnadriver · #3 06-15-20, 07:34 PM

bjornfb.
I don't know your flight experience but this company, www.hoxton.com, got me covered for about $1600, for liability. Their requirements was of course a multi-engine rating. I needed 20 hours of dual, since I wasn't multi-engine rated, at the time. And Basic Med is okay. But an increase in cost at age 70, I'm 67. I added, after receiving my rating, HULL at $30,000 for additional $1600. I now have about 120 hours PIC in C337. Now premium is around $2600. I hope this helps.
Regards, BILLS

Skymaster337B · #4 06-16-20, 02:11 AM

AVEMCO. No middleman.

JimC · #5 06-16-20, 07:03 PM

The difference in getting coverage this year and in previous years is huge. It's a MUCH harder market this year, across all carriers.

When I first got insurance years ago in my 340, I had 5 hours of multi and a recent not-in-motion claim. I had my choice of carriers, as long as I wrote a big check.

This year I'm trying to get my local instructor named as a pilot on my 337. She's not the most experienced (just over 100 hrs multi) but she's a CFII/MEI with no incidents, accidents or claims. The first carrier I had for my other coverage said "no." Flat "no." No amount of money or training would entice them to name a low-time multi-engine instructor as a covered pilot.

Jerry De Santis · #6 06-16-20, 07:10 PM

Can't say very much about insurance unless we know the pilots age. Once you are in your 70's most insurance companies want physical and flight review check ride every year. That is my experience. I fly the P337G with about 2800 hours in type. And 400 hours in other twins. I am multi and IFR rated.

hharney · #7 06-17-20, 11:18 AM

It's all about EXPOSURE to the carrier. As Jim pointed out above the market has drastically changed in the last 18 months. Even in type rated planes like Beechjet and Citation all warm bodies in the front seats MUST go to school. I fly a Navajo for a client and he had a choice depending on the liability he chose. $1m limit the pilot did not have to do school but $1m smooth and the pilot had to do annual training.

Here are some options to try, reduce the liability and see if that helps. Find a school / company that can come to you, in your plane, and have it approved by your carrier. They will approve most legit training ops with a curriculum. At least you can do it on your turf in your plane and that will just give you a better understanding of your equipment. Just some thoughts that you might try with your current carrier. Just need to ask, a lot of guys don't realize you can negotiate

TomM · #8 06-17-20, 05:15 PM

I know it was noted to hit up Avemco below with no middle man, but in a case where you need options, a broker may be the trick. When I was getting my plane, I didn't even have my multi. Avemco and AOPA said "no" faster than I could finish the sentence (probably more so because the "kids" who were helping me out did not understand what I wanted to be trained in my plane). So I called the broker I go through for my 172. Same day he found a company who would insure me. In addition, my instructor did not need to be a named pilot as long as he met the open pilot requirements. The nice thing about it was the broker asked all the questions of the insurance company for me before showing me my options.

For example, the original quote was $5,000 with hull ($45,000), zero deductible motion/not in motion. Before bringing that to me, he asked if there were other options for a lower premium and they said sure! So my options were the $5,000 for the above, or $2,800 for the above with a $250 not in motion deductible and a $2500 in motion deductible. It was nice to have the choice without having to dig for it. The above is $1M coverage as I have an umbrella policy for higher.

My insurance has the following requirements:

me - 20 hrs dual, 25 take offs - that is it - remember that is with zero multi experience. I ended up getting my training in my plane as well as taking the multi check ride in it so that burned up the 20 hours and 25 landings so I was ready to fly solo the second I got my rating.

Open pilot - Instrument rating, 1,000 hrs total time, 250 hrs multi and 10 hrs in the 337

I was feeling defeated hitting up the insurance companies directly - not advocating brokers, but that is just my experience and it worked for me.

I hate insurance but it is one of those necessary evils.............

JimC · #9 06-18-20, 12:38 PM

Interesting. All my quotes this year had the same for open pilot: 1500TT, 500 multi, 25 make/model.

What carrier gave you 1000/250/10?

Trippster · #10 06-18-20, 12:45 PM

My dad and I both have over 20,000 hours in large multi aircraft. I only have about 1000 in singles and about 500 in small multi and I had 0 in a 337. Now I have 75. My dad is 77, he only had 250 hrs in small aircraft from the 60’s. He hadn’t flown anything in 15 years and also had 0 in a 337. We pay about $2600 a year for $50,000 hull and standard liability. We both had to have 5 hrs dual in a 337.

TomM · #11 06-18-20, 01:34 PM

Jim:

My insurance is with U.S. Specialty Insurance. I go through US Aircraft Insurance as my broker.

JimC · #12 06-18-20, 01:57 PM

Thanks! How many hours total did you have?

TomM · #13 06-18-20, 02:42 PM

You are welcome!

When I got the insurance I had 1200 hours total time in a 172 and ZERO multi, but I do have my instrument rating as well.

bjornfb · #14 06-22-20, 11:32 PM

I’m 3,500TT 120MEL 56 years old, IFR, never an incident, and have done recurrent training every year I’ve been flying, so I should be a reasonably insurable pilot, but have not found offers as good as you all have. The broker I’ve used hasn’t been particular helpful in negotiating with insurance companies. Thanks for the pointers,
-Bjorn

TomM · #15 06-23-20, 02:52 PM

Man, I would think you would be easy to insure! It helps when you have someone that is interested in your needs. My broker is in VT but was born and raised in the same town in MN that I was from and is a big snowmobiler (as am I) so we really hit it off personally. Its human nature to be more interested in the people you connect with, so that may have played at least a small role in how much effort he put into helping me out.

Good luck and keep positive and make sure you ask questions about premium reductions associated with having a deductible (if that is of interest to you)