Banner towing

[N5ZX]

Ok everybody. I figured I'd give eveyone something to laugh about.
My employer wants to know if his P337G can tow a banner.
My best guess is that the answer is NO. The conventional gear configuration would cause the main gear to be a fulcrum with the Banner dragging the tail-booms downward during take-off roll.....causing the plane to "pop a wheely" and thus deminish take off performance.
What's yalls opinions?
Thanks,
Cole

[wfreestone]

Cole.

Having towed banners using a C172, Citabria, and Piper Pawnee in the St. Louis area a number of years ago for St. Charles Flying Service, there are two ways in which to pick up a banner.
1. one is to take off with it attached (which requires a long lead rope to allow the aircraft to become airborne before the banner starts to pick up).
2. The other is to takeoff without the banner attached and to pick it up through use of a tow rope attached to the aircraft with a treble type grapple hook (which normally is deployed after takeoff) and snare a circular rope ring held vertically by two poles which is attached to the lead rope of the banner lying on the ground (by flying over the circular rope ring).
Most people use the grapple hook pickup method.
I have seen or heard of banners being towed by helicopters and various aircraft.

The biggest requirement is that the towing aircraft has to be able to fly slow enough to not tear/rip the banner apart. Normally, that is about 70 to 80 KIAS.

Gasser Banners in Nashville, TN, was the company which produced banner towing equipment and banner parts; and, additionally had a book on how to tow banners. Through an internet search just now, it appears that Gasser Banners (www.gasserbanners.com) has gone out of business and Aerial Vision Worldwide http://www.bannertowingequipment.com/index.html has bought up Gasser's remaining inventory.

Banners can be made by putting together individual letters (which are between fiber glass poles similar to a fishing pole) or by buying a large single sheet fabric custom banner sign. The individual letters come in two sizes: 5 or 7 ft letters.

Bill

[WebMaster]

The biggest challenge to towing a banner is the rear prop.
With the line and treble hook arrangement, it is customary for the pilot to have the end of the line in the cockpit. This is for two reasons. The first is so the treble hook doesn't snag the ground on take off. The second is so that he can drop the banner, and not have to land with it.

Thus, the attachment point for the banner is inside the aiplane, and the line, towing the banner, in the case of a 337 would flow alongside the airplane. Now, if you look out the little window, and look directly to the rear of the aircraft, you will see this thing. It's called a propeller, and it will surely cause problems with the banner tow rope.

[wfreestone]

The attachment point for the tow line is at the tail of the aircraft in a releaseable tail hook/clamp (which has a control to release the tow rope in the cabin) and the treble hook and excess line is held in the cabin through the window during take off and then thrown out the window away and down after takeoff to deploy it.

I have not seen or heard of a Skymaster being used for banner towing, but if the tow rope release hook/clamp could be attached at the base of one of the booms/tail and the treble hook/line not get into the rear engine during takeoff and when it is thrown out/deployed from the cabin -- I guess it could be done.
Normally, a single engine aircraft is used -- due to operating costs.

[N5ZX]

Personally I think the idea of flying low and slow and cramming the throttle to the firewall when you go into a verticle climb...while dragging a grappling hook... All amounts to a god-awful thing to do to an airplane.....let alone its pilot. But, I told my boss I'd ask. This seems far better left to those who are already in the business....no need to reinvent this wheel.
Thank you for your input.
Catch ya on the downwind....
Cole

[Guy Paris]

Well if anything, I would have to say banner towing was fun, think the time was 1958

in a Super Cub with a 150 engine. And it was good training when (think it might have been

in the 1980's) when we had LOW ALTITUDE wind shear training in the B727 simulator. We

were trained to firewall the throttles and bring the nose of the B727 simulator up to stick

shaker to try and hopefully escape the effects of wind shear. (scary even in the sim)

and thankful of never having to do it out on the line.... guy, the old 72 driver.

[WebMaster]

Good point, GUY.
I've been in 2 planes that encountered low altitude wind shear. Once as a passenger, on, a 72, I think. It was scary. When we finally landed, everyone applauded the pilots. I think it was 79 or 80.
Once in mine, and it was REALLY scary.

[Lucas]

For banners that are very durable check out BrooklynSigns. They are located in NY and will ship your banners right to you. A professional sign and banners company that gets their orders done quickly and professionally.

[sns3guppy]

The skymaster does not have conventional gear; it has tricycle gear. Conventional gear would be a tailwheel.

The problem is the rear propeller. Towing a cable through the propeller won't work. The only other option is towing from a hard point on the wings, and that presents distinct obstacles.

I started and ran a banner operation a number of years ago; it works best with single engine airplanes. One takes off, tosses the hook out the window, then makes a pass to pick up the banner with the hook. It's not difficult, nor is it dangerous, but like anything, should be done with care.

If one is going to begin banner towing, get some training and introduction to what's required. It's not "god-awful," nor is it a thrill. It's a utilitarian type of flying. If you can fly slowly, then you can tow a banner. There is no "vertical climb."

Banners aren't dragged for takeoff, and the tow isn't attached to the gear.

A skymaster would be a poor choice for towing a banner.