Tail Beacon X with AV30 Question

[Scudrunner]

Up here in Canada the requirement for ADSB is still a few years out for GA and from the last I read "no sooner than 2026"

With an eye on that and planning trips down south I'm looking at options for my 337G and the UAvionix Tailbeacon X and AV30 combo made the short list.

Currently fly it mostly VFR but would like to modernize the panel a little (see pic for current setup) it would be nicer and more comforting to have some modern glass in front of me regardless of IFR or VFR.

The Tail Beacon X will make my aircraft compliant for any ADSB mandate for Canada and allow us to fly in the US so that solves that issue.

Now regarding the AV30 and the Autopilot etc.

Our Aircraft has the Cessna Navomatic 300 and gotta say it does the job and have been pleasantly surprised at how well she works and don't want to replace it at the moment.

I have a quote from my AME which I think is reasonable but need to clarify a few things next week when I get it back from annual inspection. Maybe I'm jumping the gun but I thought it would be good to get some more 337 specific knowledge as this will be his first time doing this upgrade to a 337 and want to make sure everyone's on the same page.



1. Will I be able to remove the old Attitude indicator or will I need to relocate it? maybe (ADF indicator hole)
2. Can I ditch my Garmin 327 Transponder entirely?
3. Can it couple to the Auto Pilot with Heading and or GPS (Apollo CNX80)

Thanks in advance and will post what I learn next week and as I do some more digging.

[Learjetter]

1. Will I be able to remove the old Attitude indicator or will I need to relocate it? maybe (ADF indicator hole)
— relocate it. Needed for autopilot.

2. Can I ditch my Garmin 327 Transponder entirely?
— yes, if tailbeacon STC says so.

3. Can it couple to the Auto Pilot with Heading and or GPS (Apollo CNX80)
— No. AV30 STC not eligible to drive autopilot. It will accept and display GPS track via RS232, if CNX80 has RS232 output with matching format.

[Scudrunner]

Originally Posted by Learjetter

1. Will I be able to remove the old Attitude indicator or will I need to relocate it? maybe (ADF indicator hole)
— relocate it. Needed for autopilot.

2. Can I ditch my Garmin 327 Transponder entirely?
— yes, if tailbeacon STC says so.

3. Can it couple to the Auto Pilot with Heading and or GPS (Apollo CNX80)
— No. AV30 STC not eligible to drive autopilot. It will accept and display GPS track via RS232, if CNX80 has RS232 output with matching format.

Thank you for that, I reached out to Uavionix for clarification as it sounds like my CNX80 could control the transponder negating the need for the AV30 and therefore find a compatible EFIS that could drive the autopilot - Any suggestions?

Also they have this AV-APA https://uavionix.com/product/av-apa-experimental/

The AV-APA (analog port adapter) accessory enables aircraft owners with legacy autopilots to replace their old, heavy, vacuum-driven directional gyro with a more capable, lighter, digital AV-30 and potentially remove their vacuum system entirely.

The AV-APA emulates the analog heading signal used by legacy autopilots to provide heading hold as well as the ability to follow GPS tracks from a portable or IFR GPS.

Features:

Supported Modes include: GPS Desired Track, GPS Track Hold, GPS Bearing, GPS Steering (GPSS*)
Supported Autopilots include: S-TEC Systems 20/30/40/50
AV-APA Installation Kit includes connectors, connector housings, and pins
New modes and supported autopilots coming soon
*Available when installed with AV-HSI and associated software unlock.

Doesn't mention the Navomatic but if they do eventually offer a Certified version that may help.

[Learjetter]

“Thank you for that, I reached out to Uavionix for clarification as it sounds like my CNX80 could control the transponder negating the need for the AV30 and therefore find a compatible EFIS that could drive the autopilot - Any suggestions?”
—verify CNX80 can control xpdr by reading installation manuals for both CNX80 and TailbeaconX.

—Adding AV30 gets you independent AOA, backup airspeed/alt, and electric attitude (AHRS) and GPS track in case vacuum fails. That’s why I put one in my bird. I don’t fly a lot of hard IFR but the peace of mind on a dark and stormy night makes it worth it to me.

—AV-APA is not likely to be compatible with Cessna ARC autopilots. Currently it supports STEC 20/20/40/50 only.

—Every 337 owner with a navomatic 300/300a/400/400a is awaiting someone to STC a modern digital autopilot compatible with modern EFIS. We’ve heard “it’s just around the corner in a year or two” for over 5 years now. We’ve offered our aircraft to Garmin and Genesys and Dynon…we’ve offered to buy the equipment outright…and as of today, the only autopilot upgrade is 1980s tech Century, BK, and the most modern, the STEC 55x which is 20 yrs old. Lots of autopilot upgrade threads on this board. Best bet today is probably Aspen displays with a DAC GDC31 converter connected to your existing autopilot.

[Scudrunner]

Chatting with my mechanic it still seems like a good fit for getting some glass upfront. The last few times plunging out over the Pacific to break through a marine layer didn't sit well with me. That being said it worked fine and did the job. Having some modern glass and a "backup" Vacuum would be great.

This is the response to some questions I asked UAvionix.

"your tailBeaconX will need to be paired with the AV-30C in order for it to work as the AV-30 is the transponder control head."

So I'm outta luck with using the CNX80 as the Transponder control head. doh I figured but might as well clarify it.

Asking about timeline if the AV-APA would be certified and compatibility with the Navomatic 300.

"Right now the experimental AV-APA works with the S-TEC autopilots, however once it becomes certified it will work with the S-TEC, Aerocruise and trio pro pilot anything other than those is uncertain at this point in time."

So sounds like its in the works to be certified but probably not for the Navomatic.

[hharney]

What kind of budget do you have for this project? What is the goal, just ADSB and some kind of glass? Would this goal change if you fly more IFR? As pilots we tend to find solutions based on cost instead of based on performance and safety. You have a very complex and capable aircraft and updates/upgrades should be based on buying more than needed at the time so that you can use this upgrade for future growth. Many find themselves doing 2 or 3 upgrades in a 3-5 year time period when they should have just bought the right hardware from the beginning. It cost a lot of labor dollars to redo panels and it doesn't matter if you put in used outdated equipment or brand new state of the art. Just the hardware cost a little more but you will be so glad you put in the new stuff.

Dynon is approved for Skymaster. They do not have a navigator so Garmin or Avidyne would have to be mixed in but the screens are sure nice

[n86121]

The uavionics stuff I THINK is adsB over UAT, aka 978 Mhz only, which is only a USA thing and upfeeds weather too. I don't know if there is any ADSB WX up in Canada.

But that is all invisible to radar interrogators and airliner TCAS etc, that all work on 1090Mhz.

I THINK you still need some form of output on 1090 MHz, 327 or other transponder, to generate the reply to radar interrogation, code and altitude on 1090Mhz.

The only way to replace the two transponder boxes 978Mhz (UAT) and 1090Mhz (Mode C), is one Mode S extended squitter 'ES' ADS transponder, that puts out target vector info over 1090Mhz, the international standard.

I THINK navcanada ADSB relies on Aiereon from above, which is looking for 1090MHz Mode S ES, with an antenna on top. Would need to confirm, but pretty sure.

They originally thought it could pickup signals from the horizon, but then I saw something about 'whoops,' we meant antennas on top'

Think of this mish mash as 'your tax dollars at work'

[hharney]

1090 is only required above FTL 180