1976 P337 Accident at LAL 1-14-05
 

There was an accident at Lakeland yesterday afternoon. A link to the newspaper story from Lakeland's local newspaper, The Ledger, is below. I spoke with my former flight instructer this morning, who lives there. He said that the plane took off normally, but then pitched up too high and too rapidly, stalled, and crashed. One CFII, one pilot, both killed. Similar account to the newspaper story. Anyone know these folks or the 76 P337? The owner (not piloting or in the plane) just bought it last week from California and witnessed the entire account.

Keven

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.d...501150404/1039
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Iolite Vaporizer

Thanks, Keven, for sharing this with us so promptly. It's a tragedy for all, but we Skymaster owners need to follow the investigation to see what could have caused such a rapid and exaggerated pitch up. Given the experience of the CFI and that there were two people aboard, it's hard to believe that it was pilot error or incapacitation. One thought that comes to mind -- and I apologize up front for speculating -- is that the pilot's seat rolled back, either due to a fault with the seat track (remember that there is a recurring AD on this) or failure of the pilot to properly engage the seat pins into the rails.

Ernie

337 Crash
 

Certainly an unfortunate incident and, as you say, not very likely to be simple pilot error given the experience of the pilot. As a totally "green" skymaster pilot trainee, I can remember an incident which made an impression on me. I failed to reset the trim to the takeoff range. Instead, it was set near the nose-up limit from a previous landing. My CFI didn't say a word. A few seconds after takeoff, as the aircraft gathered speed, the combination of my normal "slight" backpressure and the noze up trim pitched us up rather dramatically. It took my brain a second or two to process what was hapenning, and airspeed decayed rather quickly. By the time I started exerting strong forward pressure on the yoke to counteract the trim, we were closer to a stall than I care to be that close to the ground. My CFI, nonplussed, but with his hands hovering about an inch from the yoke, remarked dryly, "don't forget to set the trim. This isn't a 172." You can bet I haven't forgotten since.

337 Crash
 

I feel bad for the families,
I agree with Ernie. One of the seats probably moved rearward and the person in that seat pulled the yoke back causing the accident. On my 337H, I had both front seat rails replaced and checked every year since for wear. I always check both front seats at ramp and again before take off. I Explain the seat problem to anyone in co-pilot seat and what could happen if pin slipped. And direct them not to touch the yoke, and tell them the seat will only travel a shot distance if it did happen. I have owned other Cessna aircraft with same problem.

ANN has an article today. Interesting

Here's the ANN story:

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?C...-a2f044c6ae4e&
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CHEAP CROSMAN DESTROYER GRAINS POINTED 250CT

the pilot of the airplane was my brother in law and there has been speculation that a possible seat track problem caused the accident. Speculation of the accident suggests the pass seat slid back during take off and causing the pass by natural reaction to grab hold of the steering instrument causing the plane to climb at a steep angle. do you know of any known history of problems with the seat track on this model airplane?

We are very sorry for your loss.

Virtually all Cessna general aviation airplane built 20-40 years ago have a seat-rail arrangement which, over time, can fail and cause the seat and occupant to slide backwards. Because of this, and the occurrence of instance(s) where the occupant sliding backwards grabbed the yoke and caused the aircraft to pitch upwards, the manufacturer issued Service Bulletins (SBs) and the FAA issued Airworthiness Directives (ADs) requiring recurring inspections.

The rails have holes in them and the seats have spring-loaded pins which the occupant engages into the holes when he/she has moved the seat to the desired position. If the holes and/or pins are excessively worn (which they shouldn't be if the necessary AD inspection was performed), it is possible for the arrangement to fail even if the seat was properly latched. It is also possible that one of the front seat occupants did not properly latch the spring-loaded seat pins into the rail holes, causing that seat to roll backwards when the aircraft rotated on take-off.

It is, of course, premature to speculate. It might be an entirely different problem, such as the elevator becoming jammed in the up position. If it is the seat rail, it could be a maintenance issue (the rail inspections were not done or were done improperly) or a human issue (failure to do the pre-flight checks and announcements indicated by Dale Campbell in his response above).

Ernie

Seal lock
 

I have a 1975 P337G. Once you get a little wear on the plastic rollers that the seat rides on, it takes a little effort to secure the pins in the holes on the right seat. Remember, this is the seat that sees more movement in getting in and out of the plane than all the other seats combined. It has happened so often that it is now part of my check list to ensure it is secure.

I don't want to speculate as to the cause of the mishap, but you can't eliminate the seat as a potential source of the crash. Also, if trim is set slightly tail low, once you rotate, it takes a lot of force to overcome the back thrust of the yoke. I really mean a lot of force! The plane wants to climb steeply and if you are not use to it, it will pitch up as you gain air speed.

Jerry

Other failures/wear we have seen that one should check:
1. Seat back recline cam for wear or broken teeth P/N 1414111-5 (the jagged looking cam at the bottom of the seat back)
2. Seat roller housing (feet) for wear or broken off teeth that go around the bottom of he seat tracks
Don Nieser
Commodore Aerospace Corp
405-722-4079.

The plane involved was Red/White -

There is a video on TampaBayLive site:

http://www.tampabaylive.com/stories/...114plane.shtml

Could not make out the registration markings...

Bar soap trick
 

BTW, a little 'bar-soap' rubbed on the rails will help the seats move smoothly and easily, allowing the pins to engage in the seat track without forcing.

SkyKing

N42WA - A Personal Connection
 

I was shocked to learn this morning from the FAA's accident website that the victim airplane in Lakeland, FL was N42WA... this was the first P-model I'd seriously looked at in 1999. At the time, it was owned by a fellow from the Seattle area and flown out of Boeing Field with belly mounted aerial mapping-photo equipment. It was a beauty, well maintained and not a ding anywhere. Even though it was all 400 equipped and the radios and everything worked fine, I opted to hold out for a King-equipped bird that had boots and R/STOL. Anyway, I happened to save the recent 'for sale' specs, and the essentials were:

Airframe Total Time: 6,110.6 Hours
Front Engine: Continental TSIO 360 CB5B; 225 hp
1,071.6 Hours since Factory Remanufacture 06/20/99
(1,500 Hour recommended Time Before Overhaul)
Rear Engine: Rolls Royce (Continental) TSIO 360 C5; 225 hp
1,404.7 Hours since Major Overhaul 10/01/92
Front & Rear Propellers: 1,057.7 since New
Annual Date: April 24, 2004

For an asking price of $79K, it was quite a lot of airplane.

Will be very interested in seeing what the NTSB determines as the probable cause. It's interesting to note, however, that in a number of recent crashes of high-performance airplanes, including a number of single-engine models, the airplanes had only recently been purchased, leading me to believe that general unfamiliarity with the airplane systems could very well have been a contributing factor. This is not to say that I'm speculating 'unfamiliarity' was the culprit in this most recent P-model accident. I'm waiting for the NTSB's report.

SkyKing

LAL
 

SkyKing, I tend to agree with you regarding how the mishap could have occurred. As I noted in my response regarding seat lock problems and also the tendency for the plane to steep climb with high yoke force all can lead to unfamiliarty as a source. Sadly, no one will ever know for sure.

Jerry

According to the news reports they had only had the plane since Wed - that only gave them 2 days to come up to speed on the 337, unless they had prior experience with the type. No mention was made about any transition training, which is usually required for insurance coverage??

Just wondering...
 

What was the status of the flap cables..... guy

Speculation
 

Pat,

What isn't known is 'WHO' flew the plane from Camarillo, California to Lakeland, Florida in the week or two prior to the accident... that will obviously be one of the key pieces of information leading into NTSB's investigation. Let's wait and see what the preliminary data shows before assailing the pilot(s). I'm sure NTSB will be able to determine whether both engines were turning, which will also be key.

SkyKing

NTSB Preliminary - N42WA
 

From the read on this and other info, it sounds like they were doing a normal takeoff, leveled off briefly, and then pitched the airplane up for max climb... but ended up in an accelerated stall and no room for recover. Just my supposition, but one wonders if they were grandstanding the airplane for on-lookers, or maybe the pilot trying to impress the passenger. It wouldn't be the first time. The sequence just doesn't sound like a seat-track problem as some have thought.

SkyKing


NTSB Identification: MIA05FA050
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Friday, January 14, 2005 in Lakeland, FL
Aircraft: Cessna T337G, registration: N42WA
Injuries: 2 Fatal.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

On January 14, 2005, about 1537 eastern standard time, a Cessna T337G, N42WA, registered to Aerolease of America, Inc., leased to a private individual, crashed shortly after takeoff onto runway 27 at the Lakeland Linder Regional Airport, Lakeland, Florida. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time, and an instrument flight rules flight plan was filed for the 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight from the Lakeland Linder Regional Airport, Lakeland, Florida, to Tallahassee Regional Airport, Tallahassee, Florida. The airplane was destroyed by a postcrash fire and the airline transport-rated pilot and one passenger were fatally injured. The flight was originating at the time of the accident.

According to the local controller of the Lakeland Linder Regional Air Traffic Control Tower, the flight was cleared to takeoff from runway 27 and to climb runway heading. He did not observe the point of rotation, but reported the airplane was in a normal climb attitude when the flight was airborne approximately 1,000 feet down the runway. The flight continued and when it was approximately 500 feet more down the length of the runway, he observed the airplane pitch up to between an estimated 30-45 degrees, then leveled off at an estimated altitude of between 150-200 feet above ground level. At that time the flight was abeam runway 27 and taxiway "B." Approximately 5 seconds later, the wings were noted to rock up and down and the airplane drifted north of the north edge of the runway. The airplane rolled nose and left wing low, then appeared to level off before impacting the ground while in a slight nose up and left wing low attitude; the airplane caught fire 20 seconds later. He did not hear any unusual engine sounds during the flight and could not determine if the engines were run-up before departure. Both engines' rpm sounded to be synchronized during the short duration flight. There was no distress call made by the pilot of the airplane.

Another witness reported seeing the airplane in a steep nose-up attitude after becoming airborne. The witness reported the airplane then rolled left and impacted the ground while in a slight nose-up and left wing low attitude. An individual who owns a Cessna 337 airplane and only heard the accident flight reported hearing both engines operating at what he thought was full power.

I'm not judging the pilot or plane, but if that was the case, I call that BAT21 syndrome... We will probably never know what REALLY happened, but it can serve as a reminder to all of us that everything is always better when done in moderation..... Moderate climb attitude, moderate speed changes, moderate turn rates.... It's not a jet fighter - no use flying it like one.

Did they make any mention of how much time in type the pilot had? Had he had any recent transition training on 337's? Unless he had some prior logged 336/337 experience, it would hardly have been more than a few hours if it was in fact delivered to them earlier that week on Wednesday as we read in the article...

Fly safe! - P

Seat track......
 

I don't know how many of you ever had a seat track ratchet back... I did on a Douglass DC 9 several years ago. And I remember it well, it still gives me shivers. I remember saying "YOU GOT IT". And I went back to the end of the seat rail... If it were not for an able and READY copilot I may not be writing this message. As you know there is NOTHING to hold on to but the control wheel and the throttles. If the seat starts to go back and no one else is there who knows how to take over... and if it's trimed a bit more nose up than it should have been... it's all over... I can also remember many years ago when the seat tracks started to fail and I was instructing in the Cessna single engine line we told the students to check the seat for security AND place there first two fingers over the friction control on the throttle in the event the seat failed. We don't have that on the 337's and there fore it's of GREAT importance to make sure the seat is LOCKED. AND lets give this guy the benifit of the doubt.. guy....

Saf-T-Stop Seat Rail Lock
 

There is an FAA/PMA approved rail mounted safety stop available that will prevent the possibllity of this sliding seat problem. Commonly available from a number of supply houses. Chief Aircraft (800-447-3408) at www.cheifaircraft.com list it as PN:ATI-8701 for approx. $38 per pair.

Truthfully, I assumed that most folks knew about this product but if you don't have them installed ORDER A PAIR TODAY!! I have flown for years with them installed on the pilot side rails. Now I see the possiblity that a sliding co-pilot seat might be a hazzard if the occupant naturally grabbed the yoke. Just confirms why we need this forum...there's always more to learn from each other.

I believe Peyton's link for Chief Aircraft above is wrong and will dump you on a website trying to steer you elsewhere. The proper URL is www.chiefaircraft.com and here's the page describing the item:
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/cgi-bin...tRailStop.html

Ernie

NTSB Releases Probable Cause Report
 

The NTSB found that the aircraft had exhibited, in 3 prior flights that day, aggressive pitch-up behavior due to a pitch-control malfunction, and no one requested inspection or maintenance of the problem. More in today's edition of www.aero-news.net

Ernie

Seat Slip
 

When my 80-H was in for annual this year it failed the track test, so I had the pilot side tracks replaced. Later when I was underneath the seat trying to hook up my fire-extinguisher I noticed that only one pin was locked in the track and the other was off by 1/2 of a hole. Very strange ! as it was perfect during the reinstall of the seats.

I had thus been flying it with one pin out of the track hole, but didn't know it, as it appeard to lock in place while in the seat.

After removal of the seat I found that one of the pins in the pivot point of the seat back had sheared. So when the seat back was cranked back a bit, it torqued the latch pins out of parallel allignment.

Put in a new pin, and it works perfectly

Sorry to bring this thread back up, but I found it searching for this tail number.

I used to fly 42WA for an on-demand freight hauler. We had this airplane, and one other A model. 42WA was the first one the company had. Lat I checked, I logged around 300 hours in that airplane.

When we started operations, the airplane was well maintained and a blast to fly. Not so much towards the end. In fact, the airplane was grounded by the Feds, then ferried to another airport for the annual. It was repo'd by Aerolease while there since my company had stopped making the payments.

If anyone has any pictures of it, I'd love to have a copy. That's one of the few airplanes I've flown that I don't have any.

This thread has two pages. On the first page, in a message dated 01/18/05, is a picture of the aircraft.

Ernie

Update on Lakeland Crash
 

Supreme Court will not hear Case