Q: Insurance recommendation
 

After three years of various repairs and long stays in shops, I finally have my P337 working. Plus it’s time to renew the insurance. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions about good insurance companies or brokers? I’ve got a policy and I’m fine with the price but I don’t like the fact that it requires a specific annual school. I’m happy with annual training — I was doing that with previous single so no problem there — just not happy with the overly specific school written into the insurance. So looking for any suggestions...

Thanks,
-Bjorn

skysmith.com
 

We've been using Scott smith at skysmith.com for a few years and are happy with the rates and coverage. Not sure how he would quote you for your experience level vs ours. We all have 20,000 hrs of multi turbine time, but the minimum in the 337 for all but me and I only have 75 hours in it.

Tripp

Insurance recommendation
 

bjornfb.
I don't know your flight experience but this company, www.hoxton.com, got me covered for about $1600, for liability. Their requirements was of course a multi-engine rating. I needed 20 hours of dual, since I wasn't multi-engine rated, at the time. And Basic Med is okay. But an increase in cost at age 70, I'm 67. I added, after receiving my rating, HULL at $30,000 for additional $1600. I now have about 120 hours PIC in C337. Now premium is around $2600. I hope this helps.
Regards, BILLS

AVEMCO. No middleman.

The difference in getting coverage this year and in previous years is huge. It's a MUCH harder market this year, across all carriers.

When I first got insurance years ago in my 340, I had 5 hours of multi and a recent not-in-motion claim. I had my choice of carriers, as long as I wrote a big check.

This year I'm trying to get my local instructor named as a pilot on my 337. She's not the most experienced (just over 100 hrs multi) but she's a CFII/MEI with no incidents, accidents or claims. The first carrier I had for my other coverage said "no." Flat "no." No amount of money or training would entice them to name a low-time multi-engine instructor as a covered pilot.

Insurance
 

Can't say very much about insurance unless we know the pilots age. Once you are in your 70's most insurance companies want physical and flight review check ride every year. That is my experience. I fly the P337G with about 2800 hours in type. And 400 hours in other twins. I am multi and IFR rated.

It's all about EXPOSURE to the carrier. As Jim pointed out above the market has drastically changed in the last 18 months. Even in type rated planes like Beechjet and Citation all warm bodies in the front seats MUST go to school. I fly a Navajo for a client and he had a choice depending on the liability he chose. $1m limit the pilot did not have to do school but $1m smooth and the pilot had to do annual training.

Here are some options to try, reduce the liability and see if that helps. Find a school / company that can come to you, in your plane, and have it approved by your carrier. They will approve most legit training ops with a curriculum. At least you can do it on your turf in your plane and that will just give you a better understanding of your equipment. Just some thoughts that you might try with your current carrier. Just need to ask, a lot of guys don't realize you can negotiate

no experiance insurance
 

I know it was noted to hit up Avemco below with no middle man, but in a case where you need options, a broker may be the trick. When I was getting my plane, I didn't even have my multi. Avemco and AOPA said "no" faster than I could finish the sentence (probably more so because the "kids" who were helping me out did not understand what I wanted to be trained in my plane). So I called the broker I go through for my 172. Same day he found a company who would insure me. In addition, my instructor did not need to be a named pilot as long as he met the open pilot requirements. The nice thing about it was the broker asked all the questions of the insurance company for me before showing me my options.

For example, the original quote was $5,000 with hull ($45,000), zero deductible motion/not in motion. Before bringing that to me, he asked if there were other options for a lower premium and they said sure! So my options were the $5,000 for the above, or $2,800 for the above with a $250 not in motion deductible and a $2500 in motion deductible. It was nice to have the choice without having to dig for it. The above is $1M coverage as I have an umbrella policy for higher.

My insurance has the following requirements:

me - 20 hrs dual, 25 take offs - that is it - remember that is with zero multi experience. I ended up getting my training in my plane as well as taking the multi check ride in it so that burned up the 20 hours and 25 landings so I was ready to fly solo the second I got my rating.

Open pilot - Instrument rating, 1,000 hrs total time, 250 hrs multi and 10 hrs in the 337

I was feeling defeated hitting up the insurance companies directly - not advocating brokers, but that is just my experience and it worked for me.

I hate insurance but it is one of those necessary evils.............

Interesting. All my quotes this year had the same for open pilot: 1500TT, 500 multi, 25 make/model.

What carrier gave you 1000/250/10?

Details of our insurance
 

My dad and I both have over 20,000 hours in large multi aircraft. I only have about 1000 in singles and about 500 in small multi and I had 0 in a 337. Now I have 75. My dad is 77, he only had 250 hrs in small aircraft from the 60’s. He hadn’t flown anything in 15 years and also had 0 in a 337. We pay about $2600 a year for $50,000 hull and standard liability. We both had to have 5 hrs dual in a 337.

Jim:

My insurance is with U.S. Specialty Insurance. I go through US Aircraft Insurance as my broker.

Thanks! How many hours total did you have?

You are welcome!

When I got the insurance I had 1200 hours total time in a 172 and ZERO multi, but I do have my instrument rating as well.

Thanks
 

I’m 3,500TT 120MEL 56 years old, IFR, never an incident, and have done recurrent training every year I’ve been flying, so I should be a reasonably insurable pilot, but have not found offers as good as you all have. The broker I’ve used hasn’t been particular helpful in negotiating with insurance companies. Thanks for the pointers,
-Bjorn

Man, I would think you would be easy to insure! It helps when you have someone that is interested in your needs. My broker is in VT but was born and raised in the same town in MN that I was from and is a big snowmobiler (as am I) so we really hit it off personally. Its human nature to be more interested in the people you connect with, so that may have played at least a small role in how much effort he put into helping me out.

Good luck and keep positive and make sure you ask questions about premium reductions associated with having a deductible (if that is of interest to you)

Insurance recommendation
 

Any idea what the insurance would be for 74 year old male with atp multi on a 336.? Thanks Ron

My Dad is on our policy and he’s 77. ATP with 27,000 hours large multi commercial but less than 50 in the 337. We pay about $2800 a year.

Insurance recommendation
 

Just a quick update ,assured partners aerospace would not quote on 64 336. I’m 74 with only an hour in type.

AVEMCO Insurance

Sad
 

Won't offer a quote on a FIXED GEAR, CENTERLINE THRUST aircraft. That, my aviation friends, is ridiculous!

Idea for older pilots
 

There was time when a older friend/mentor was having eye surgery and would lose his medical for the next year. Said friend added me to his insurance, and flew everywhere with me for that year (actually a bit more than a year, since he had some trouble getting his medical back). I watched him like a hawk, because I was technically PIC, but the guy had been flying since the 1940's and was basically an ace. All he really did anyway were the take-offs and landings, AP did the rest. He did have to pay my expenses when we flew, and he always got me my own room at the same place he was staying, ate in the same restaurants with him, went to the same shows. It was a dream for a young broke pilot! For those who can afford it, this is a viable route to be insured, and keep flying. This was in a '95 58 Baron, BTW, insured at $500,000. I want to say the premiums were about $8000 per year, but this was back in the early 2000's.

Insurance recommendation
 

There was a good video on an web about the hardening of insurance requirements. They had some good recommendations ,sky smith recommends that we should fly more often.

this was on avweb this week, copy link:

https://www.avweb.com/multimedia/avi...?MailingID=460

Avemco covered me right at purchase, 0 hours time in type, only twin time was what was done for twin rating. But had to have 25 hours with copilot time in type which was fine with me as I only had single time. Some might consider steep-ish premium at 4G but 4-5 years ago got quotes up to 9G, not avemco, no twin rating, only time in singles. Also lowered hull insurance. I'm 50's with 20 yr hiatus in flying due to career, 600 hours. I knew taking 337 plunge was going to mean pony up on insurance, the cost of doing this along with everything else. Did two years "prep" with individual ownership of 182 ("working way up"). Not for the faint of heart or wallet. Video has important message about currency...fly as much as possible and sprinkle in training.

Insurance recommendation
 

Just a quick update,on a 336 could only get one quote from Avemco,4800 for 50 K hull and 4400 for 4200 Hull value. Paying roughly $ 50 a flying hour for insurance doesn’t excite me.

I just got $125k hull on a P337 for $4500. Initially it was misquoted as a T337 at $3200. That sounds like a lot for a $50k hull value 336.

so far my best quote is $7250 on a 72 F model. $50k hull and 500k/1mil liability

You're welcome to try my broker, she's awesome. Feel free to use my name.

Wendy Wenk
Wenk Aviation Insurance
900 North Shore Drive, Suite 109, Lake Bluff, IL 60044
847.235.2491 phone │ 847.235.2559 fax
wendy@wenkaviation.com

That is completely insane - 15% of the hull value in annual premiums???

that's what I thought. I'm light on multi, and 0 in type but I'm a CFI/CFII. They only wanted 10 hours dual. Seems like a disconnect there if it's so expensive but they want a fairly light checkout.

I've got parker woodruff working on it. I don't want to double broker it, thank you though.

I knew it wasn't going to be cheap but I was hoping 3-4k would be a reasonable expectation.

edit: a P was a hard no when I asked like a year ago.

Parker is a good guy, I've known him for years and have used him in the past. But I've been with Wendy a long time now and she does amazing things with underwriters.

Back off on that 1MM liability figure. That's whats driving the rate up. Ask for a hull-only quote, no liability, and see a P&C insurance broker about an umbrella policy. Ask me how I know this works.

I already have an umbrella, but it carries an aviation exclusion. :rolleyes:
I'll see what I can do, thanks for the idea.

seeing you talk about your P on mooneyspace is what put me in this situation to begin with :mad::D

Ask what they would charge to remove the exclusion. In the insurance world, everything has a price.

I bought my first P337 in 2015. Wendy was able to get me insured at a good premium with no formal school and only 5 hours transition training. When I bought my current P337, she was able to get no school and no transition training.

She got the guy I sold my first P337 insured in it without even a multi-rating. Obviously he had to get the rating before solo. Wendy knows the underwriters of these companies very well and has simply worked magic for me in the past.

YMMV.

Sorry :D

I got a "not for any price" from State Farm.

Then find the carrier that does offer you a price. State Farm is far from the only fish in the sea. Often its the smaller companies that will write policies like this. You wouldn't recognize the company that writes mine.

ah crap. well, I don't think I can do much about it now since I'm already working with a broker. I wish I had asked before talking to parker.