FAA Approves Electronic Ignition - Possible Avfuel Solution?
 

Aero-News.net reports that the FAA has issued the first Supplement Type Certificate (STC) for a pure electronic general aviation piston engine ignition system, and the company (Electroair) anticipates obtaining STCs for all six cylinder Continental engines over the next several months (the current STC is for all Lycoming four cylinder engines installed on Cessna Aircraft). The system may be part of the answer to changes in future aviation fuel and is said to have shown significant performance and economy improvements in over 2,500 units previously installed in experimental aircraft. The full report is at:
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?d...f-9b34e60fdc1f

Ernie

I heard, that's really cool. Love Oshkosh. My only concern, when I explored the website was that a battery backup was needed incase ships power is lost. After watching the video, they said standard installation would replace a magneto and the EI would be primary, but one magneto would remain and take over incase all power is lost. That concept of keeping the engine operation during a full electrical outage is a very important factor for me.

Looking forward to more articles from Oshkosh.

Karl

Has anyone installed the Electroair mags on their Skymaster? Asking for a friend, he has a G model pressurized and would like to install the electronic ignition

I plan to try during my next annual in January 2022 (if money permits). Ask me again after this date and I might have some info for you.

Surefly's model SIM6C electronic ignition is for our engines, and it costs $1895.

Their website: http://surefly.aero

The VP of Sales for SureFly is an acquaintance of mine. He lives near me. I met him buying a motorcycle he was selling. Nice guy. If anybody wants a connection to him, reach out and I'll introduce you.

> Has anyone installed the Electroair mags on their Skymaster?

Yes, I have the ElectroAir system on both engines of my P337. Love them. The engines run extremely smoothly and they are the easiest starting engines I’ve ever flown.

-Bjorn

Bjorn,

Have you also experience better fuel economy and performance on takeoff and at cruise.

Those were the other things I was interested in. Glad to hear the easier starting works.

Karl

Re: Electroair mags
 

> Have you also experience better fuel economy and performance on takeoff and at cruise.

Karl, I can't say whether I've been getting better fuel economy as I didn't keep accurate enough records before. Same for performance: I actually changed my takeoff procedure shortly after I had the Electroairs installed to reduce stress on the engines: basically I'm using the airline style "just enough power" rather than the little airplane style "full power all the time". Since sometimes I take off at 90% power, sometimes 95%, and sometimes 100%, I don't have consistent enough data to say if the Electroairs helped there.

But I will repeat: I never, ever, have any trouble starting the engines now. Hot, cold, whatever, they just crank a couple turns and vroom they are running. Other pilots are jealous :)

Cheers,
- Bjorn

Hi Bjorn,

I'm looking at my next upgrade for my aircraft as Electroair ignitions. Electroair has the additional switches that you can buy for some issue with backfiring. Did you purchase and install these switches or did you keep your original one. If you kept the original switches, have you had any issues with them them working with EI?

Thank you for any help,

Karl

Karl,
I did put those switch panels (http://www.electroair.net/switchPanel.html) in when I upgraded to the ElectroAirs. I did it mostly because I liked the look and I never liked the fact that the starter was part of the same key switch as the magnetos, but you are correct that it mitigates that mag check issue: the issue is that the ElectroAirs have a slight delay from powered-on to generating-sparks, so in the key switch case, you end up not having a spark at all for a brief half second (magneto off, EA on but not yet generating spark, then EA on generating spark). With the switches, I can turn the ElectroAir on, wait the half second, then turn the magneto off and voila, I never have that "there is no spark happening" half second. But mostly I like the look of the switches on my panel :)

Cheers,
- Bjorn

Can someone please explain to me...
 

Other than FADEC being simpler, and electronic ignition being easier to start,
I can't imagine there is any noticeable gain in efficiency, miles per gallon, or power speed.

Unless I am missing something,
automobiles gain their 'efficiency' by handling constantly CHANGING power requirements more precisely.

I remember from my Princeton aersopace design course, a car on a level highway at constant highway speed needs on order of 20 HP (or less) to overcome all friction, internal and external: air, internal friction, wheels deforming, etc.

Thats why cars are all looking the same. They all ready the same market studies for what the market wants, and they are all engineering the same few variables to optimize drag and friction. They also become lighter to require less HP to accelerate fast, but super acceleration is more for marketing than regular use.

That is also why a tiny car engine that can provide efficient cruise at low power, with high efficiency, and also have massive turbos and other add-ons that adjust changing fuel, air, timing; such as for ACCELERATING the mass of the vehicle, or improved performance, etc.

My son's 350HP sports car still gets 30+ miles per gallon, when turbo's not accelerating it. But hard acceleration and it drinks fuel. Physics.

Our airplane engines operate more like an industrial powerplant: Many hours at mostly steady state, within a very narrow band of RPM and mostly constant power at a given altitude.

There are only three variables: How much fuel, how much air, and when to ignite it?

There are also other clever things one can do to improve volumetric efficiency: Intake systems with less drag. Larger valves to breathe easier, etc.

I had a Lotus in the 70's that had a 45mm carb on EACH cylinder, a flow through exhaust, and 4 LARGE valves per cylinder. I recall the exhaust vales were huge. It got 250HP out of a normally aspirated 4 cylinder engine, sounded like you were at Le Mans, and was a rocket, AND got great mileage when you weren't flooring it.

At a steady state, I BELIEVE our aircraft engines are pretty much optimal for fuel, air, timing, and exhaust. They may not operate very well outside of that, but we don't operate them out there for long anyway.

So I dont understand where the gains can come from?

Surefly, the company I linked to in an earlier post, makes no claims of increases in efficiency or power associated with their product. From their website:

What are the advantages of a SIM configured for fixed timing over a magneto?
The SIM is a solid-state ignition module with the benefit of improved reliability and zero maintenance (no rebuilds & no overhauls) over the lifetime of the SIM. Another benefit is improved starting.

Advantage electronic ignition: no points. Anyone that ever had an old car that uses points, remember that Achilles heel…

On my first car, with points, they would fail at most inopportune time. Usually away from home and tools with some other life event needing to be critically completed.

We fly behind them with great faith and trust. The advent of electronic ignition in automobiles moved things up to a much greater level of reliability.

That's why we have two. Because we don't really have that much faith or trust in them!

I'd love the contact, I sent a private message. Davis

@bjornfb

Hi Bjorn,
I was asking questions in the past about installing Electroair ignition in my 337A. I finally received an estimate to have them installed, but the time to install seem extreme. Do you know how many hours of labor were involved in front engine and rear engine installation. The manufacture I believe had the number of about 10 hours of labor per engine, but I received something like 40 hours per engine for my estimate.

Thanks for any help,

Karl

Sorry, I don’t: they were installed as part of a larger “catch up on deferred maintenance of the previous owner” effort and so I don’t know how much the ElectroAirs took by themselves.

-Bjorn

Karl, not an Electroair answer, but just FYI:
I put a Surefly SIM in place of Left mag on my engines. Took about six hours over two days for both engines, including unboxing, doing the 2 forms 337 and log entries, new harness routing, new wiring, SIM programming and timing. But I’m very slow, and I’ve got a rear access hatch for rear engine mag access and the interior was removed for annual. If I had to start with an unopened aircraft, I could see 10-12 clock hours for both engines. When Surefly gets dual-installation approval, I’ll replace my other mag with another Surefly.

-LJ

Thanks for the replay. I'm talking to a second mechanic about installation to see if they come up with the same figure. If they do, the difference between what the manufacture believe is the install time and the mechanics install time has a large discrepancy. I'll let the forum know what I find out.

Karl

Russ installed Electro-Aire on his G model
Contact him at


CRDedrickson@gmail.com or on this forum through PM

Add a lambda O2 sensor in the exhaust with display,
and a knock sensor,
with an ECU that automatically advances timing,
that can lean to the edge of knock detection,
....now you're talking.

As you fellow dinosaurs recall,
older cars and boats ALL had mechanical points with centripetal advance mechanisms.
Little weights and springs twirling around.
Crude but effective.
Not reliable, but functional for the time.

AC Delco (and others) came out with direct drop in replacement electronic distributor series,
that have their ECU IN the distributor cap.
They automatically figure out 4,6, or 8 cylinders, and advances RPM curves accordingly.
Not tied to a knock sensor, as did some of the original OEM ECU stuff.

Now imagine that in an airplane,,,,,

I'd be shocked if exactly what you describe does not already exist in the Experimental aircraft world. They've got all kinds of goodies certified AC aren't allowed.

I've seen Experimentals run modern Corvette engines, so I assume the automotive ECU is in there doing its magic!

Here's an LS3 on a Velocity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRuF30l9FSU Its got TWO ECU's, each one running four cylinders!